Fucking Ireland

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[Apex]

No, each country should create, ratify, and enforce its own laws without the overbearing EU telling them how to live.

Ah, Bullshit. Keep things like they were in the dark ages eh?

A European state is essential for the future economical, social and ecological progress of Europe. The system of completely independent national states is out-dated, not needed anymore and does more harm then good.

Started out of economic necessity, which is more a need for survival nowadays, it is the ultimate step to bring europeans closer together. After centuries of war, the EU is the guarantee for peace, freedom and wealth amongst the european continent. People have to realize that they are not only Germans, French, English anymore, but also Europeans. Of course countries should maintain their own history and culture. Staying German, but also becoming European. Humanity has to come together if we want to survive.   

The EU sets economic standards that lift quality, brings down barriers between countries, and gives money to underdeveloped states (e.G. Ireland). It tries to establish a common foreign policy, which is the only major one in this world that makes much sense. And the only one giving a damn about ecologics. It gives aid to third world countries or countries which suffered catastrophies.

The EU hampers itself with trying to make it right for every member state. Which already made it incapable of acting too many times. Conservative national politicians know that they will lose their own power to the EU, which is why they try to keep things as they are.

And then I see people like Cosmo posting stuff like "The EU can stay in Europe, leave us alone. I don't want my countries rules influenced by some french person!" and I give up and ask myself whether humanity is even worth it.    

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

i was joking, i don't really care either way (im too young to vote). I believe in the European common market, but the whole EU as one big state almost... no.

[Crono]

ya, but isnt the problem some of you are catholics and the good ones are protestant?

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

im not Irish and im atheist, so i don't know.

[AmPM]

Further proof that the EU is a facist state. Do what we tell you or get out!

You have to do what we tell you, even though you are a separate sovereign state!!! RABBLE RABBLE!!

[Dragon93]

Apex you wise old man. I totally agree. We're not Germans, French, English but we are Human. Personally, ive lived in loads of places, and i find it hard to pick a single nationality. I love the idea of a unified Earth, and if that starts with turning the EU into the United States of Europe, so be it. It could eventually lead to world peace etc. meaning putting more money into health and exploration, space . I think the main problem about this Treaty is the way its being forced on, if it was done properly, im sure most people would agree with it.

[AmPM]

Why do you think the EU should be the unifying force, why not just make all your European countries new States =)

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

that will probably end up with a war between the united states of Europe and the USA... that is the way humanity goes...

[Smithy17]

I think its time to post a short segment from an old british sitcom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZUOkGxGUVs&feature=related

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

so awesome!

[Crono]

Ya, the EU wont end up being "states" but will more likely and probably is the first example of what kind of government could be structured for a world government.  I also have no doubt that the US will fall behind in its endeavors to "democratize" the world, and will most likely fall into the EU or whatever it may be in the future.  I just look forward to the day that we as humans stop killing each other over resources, land, and especially the belief in god or gods.

[PrydainII]

Fuck the EU. We are all independent countries, some Europeans in Brussels making decisions that effect my country and tell us what we can and cannot do is bullshit. European trade, I don't mind having a forum for trade in Europe but when it moves onto controlling nations within its sphere of influence, it has gone overboard.

The EU is proof that people do not rule, job justifying snobs will do that for you. And at least Ireland got a fucking referendum, spineless Brown promised that but did we get it? No!

Ireland's being an ungrateful fuck after everything the EU has done for them. But I guess the population in Ireland has just forgotten how the EU funded them all the way to being a properly developed nation.

Ok, when 64million people in Britain vote NO when we finally get a referendum, you won't be able to say we are ungrateful. You cant force and bully nations into a union just so you can rule them, yet you don't even live in their country. By this logic, if Poland was to decide the EU is not for them then Britain can call them ungrateful?

[PrydainII]

Just let us Irish have back Northern Ireland then we shall talk.

Where were you born and what country do you reside in?

[Crono]

You know what I dont understand, Ireland wants its independence, but how on Earth would that help?  Sure you can have your own currency, and run your own government, but you know there is a larger world out there, and as the world "gets smaller" everyday, we all as a whole need to be working together and doing it peacefully.

On top of that, for all the wrong Britain has committed against the Irish, what good has it done?  Provided jobs, gave funds for infrastructure and public services.

I am not condoning actions on either side, but look at the big picture people, its time we accept the world as a whole and not as seperate nations.  The sooner that happens, the sooner we as humans can go onto greater endeavors.

[PrydainII]

I am not condoning actions on either side, but look at the big picture people, its time we accept the world as a whole and not as seperate nations.  The sooner that happens, the sooner we as humans can go onto greater endeavors.

Lets just give them 3Billion Pound Sterling a year and get nothing back, lets let mass immigration due to EU laws break away at our public services and create racial tension, lets let them walk all over our lawmakers and instruct people in forgiven lands how to live and become hypocrites for saying Empires where a bad idea. Oh wait, its happening. Independence and freedom are things that people babble on about a lot, I can't see fairness in being forced into the hands of new rulers for economic reasons. Freedom... Yea right.

[Dr.Nick2]

Reminds me of some of the causes to the American civil war (not slavery). The whole issue of states' rights and the power of the federal government. Kinda sounds like if this treaty goes through it gives more power to a centralized government and takes away rights of individual countries.  Alittle compromise in letting countries keep alot of their laws and such might help? But I don't know much about the EU so I'm just commenting on what I've pieced together.

[Bodybag2224-Armor]

Just let us Irish have back Northern Ireland then we shall talk.

Where were you born and what country do you reside in?

I myself was not born, but my mothers family is apparnetly a bunch of rich people residing on the west coast of Ireland. My great-grandfather was a general in something around the 10's and 20's and was snuck out of the country to Ellis Island where they flourished. I've been to Ireland once, great place.

[UnLimiTeD]

One Word:
National Socialism.

And some more:
This treaty is already a compromise, and arguments like "they take our jobs" and "they break our society" just show the small lights within the public.
Damn.
Im all for a centralized government, EU is the future and no one is going to change it.
If people don't want the EU, don't join or just leave, it's that easy.
Btw, representative polls show most Irish didn't like the treaty because it was very hard to understand, and because their government isn't too popular anymore.
Hell, members of the government actually admitted they don't know what the treaty is about, while still advertising it.
Thats part of the problem, it doesn't make politics look too serious.

Hail the United Europe!

[HaroquenX]

Sounds like everyone who favours the EU also favours Ingsoc

[Willshire]

Don't talk shit like that, following that theory you would never get anything done EVER.
It's how democracy works.

If 26 out of 27 countries agree, that's enough democracy.

It's sickening that some ignorant random joe gets to decide the faith of 470 million others. I dare say that more than half of the people who voted no absolutely had NO idea what they were voting on or against. Ireland's being an ungrateful fuck after everything the EU has done for them. But I guess the population in Ireland has just forgotten how the EU funded them all the way to being a properly developed nation.

Ok so now if the majority of people vote on something that makes it right? So if I go fishing and catch three fish and return to my island only to have the majority of people on the island vote that they can take my fish away from me for the common good is that make it just? Or if we had the majority of the southern states in the US reconstitute slavery based on the Dredd Scott case (which was never overturned btw) saying that the feds can't take away private property even in free states would that make it right? Not that democracy is anything less than mob rule, which is why the US was so wise to install an constitutional republic (and then conveniently forget about it and return to the shithole of a democracy after only a few decades)

If some people want to remain sovereign that's great, but you can't just destroy the contractural agreement between them and their government (aka Constitution) just because a majority of people vote for it, it's then that you need the consent of every single one of the governed to change the contractural agreement.

And when's the last time the government has done anything good, huh?

Sounds like everyone who favours the EU also favours Ingsoc

Pretty much. The national mottos come to mind with the EU. FREEDOM IS SLAVERY seems to be the norm today, which is quite doubleplusgood, am I right?

On top of that, for all the wrong Britain has committed against the Irish, what good has it done?  Provided jobs, gave funds for infrastructure and public services.

Hey let's just let America come into every country to spread democracy right before it obliterates the infrastructure, to then rebuild it.