2v2 Allies Defending TO THE WIRE, battle 14639

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[DasGuntLord01]

A fantastic game involving 4 medium players (we're all ranked between 200 and 100).

BATTLE #: 14639

FEATURES: To the wire game! Big infantry engagements, with the attrition being felt heavily on both sides.

PLAYERS
Allies: DasGuntLord01 and Krem1in
Axis: Chipsngravy and Trashking



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Apex]

Some Suggestions.

Allies:

1. Starting platoons inefficient
A single AT-Gun is not enough AT for the start, 1 Flammenwerfer-HT was enough to roll over your entire right flank. And a calliope occupies way too much initial population, especially when defending. Also, your HMG placement was bad.

2. Use your Sniper
You started with one and he was idle on the left flank for a long time. Always move them to where the action is and keep them firing.

3. Sniper Cloaking
There is no need to cloak them all the time, especially when moving over long distances. Only cloak when hostiles are close. When you are cloaked and they are coming near, don't just retreat! Uncloak and run away. You fired one shot with your sniper, then some Volks came hunting you and you just retreated, while you could have easily run away uncloaked.

4. Airborne Drops without purpose
Don't just drop airborne somewhere because you feel like it. If you drop behind enemy lines, do it with purpose. And then don't just run around in a blob looking for trouble. When you started to drop airborne, you broke your defensive lines and that just lead to a wild goose chase with troops all around the map and something like a frontline not existing. It allowed axis to cap a lot of territores.
You could have held the line when you would have just dropped inside your territory and then reinforced your defenses with the airborne.

5. Cowboys
Get killed. Support your tanks with infantry.


Axis:

1. One PaK is not enough AT
When the Sherman came, and they always come sooner or later, you had nothing on the field to respond with. Be prepared.

2. Double Nebelwerfer start
Way too much population and makes you very immobile. Starting with Nebels is inadvised in general and 2 of them only pay off when having 30+ population cap.

3. Firing Nebels
Don't shoot where the enemy is, shoot where they are going to be. When you have 2 Nebels, fire them one after another, to finish off pinned infantry or to change the target entirely.

4. PaK
Move them uncloaked.

5. Stormtroopers
Why do people always keep them cloaked at all times? You lost a significant amount of troops on the left because you decided to cloak your stormtroopers and then slowly walk them in. Then you uncloaked and fired on the Sherman at long range, wasting your advantage. Later they got wasted cause you tried to walk away from a bombing run cloaked.
Only cloak storms when it gives you an advantage, and only use it when being close to the enemy.

Suicide StuGs, StuHs and Pumas
Usually don't pay off. Combined arms do. I counted 1 StuG, 2 StuHs and 3 upgunned Pumas driving around alone behind enemy lines getting killed without doing anything in return.

6. Platoon management
This was your biggest mistake. Don't make platoons that only consist of AT, like 2 PaKs or 2 Double Schrecker squads. Always try to have a balanced force. You only started to bring AT in when they already had the tanks on the field, and then it was always way too much AT, and your schreckers got killed by their infantry. Communicate about this with your ally. In total, I counted 6 lone Schrecker squads, killed by some airborne running around. That cost you the game.

7. Regroup
There were several times when you got completely wiped out, mainly due to blobbing. When that happens, don't just do it like the soviets and send wave after wave of reinforcements into the meatgrinder.  During endgame dozens of volks squads in pairs of 2s and 3s got killed that way. Wait and regroup, devise a plan, then attack in strength.

8. No Surrender, No Retreat
The allies won with a 10% health Sherman, 1 Calliope, 1 ATG and 2 understrength Rifle squads. You thought it was over, and I saw you entering and immediatly retreating off the field with at least 5 Volks squads, 1 Mortar, and 1 upgunned Puma. You could have won.

[GamerAndy]

Good commentary Apex,
My only critque of your commentary would be to ask if there was any particular behavior or tactic they used well that others could learn from?

[Mysthalin]

lost to this stacked pair as well today in a very intense battle. Attrition with these two is fast and furious, the one AT gun start on my side got me rather bad as well.
These guys blitz real well and their rush on my side was only stopped by support from my ally(though his side failed immediately after that).
The map was RTC, think I did well enough tho . Killed more than I lost and got two of my tanks off field, usually I don't run away with any of'em.
The game was a great one, and I'd love to have one with them again!

[GamerAndyAlly]

Biggest mistake the allies made was in their tank micro.   Every sherman I saw fired almost all of their shots while mobile - FYI guys this drops the accuracy of most units, shermans included by 50% or more Some nice circle strafing of a stug happened but learning how to GTFO while keeping your front armor to enemy fire is a vital skill.

If you're using jeeps for sighting and not hunting down enemy weapons teams on the move, you need to keep your jeeps on the front lines - You had 2 jeeps sitting in the way back for most of the game.     

If you start without an ATG or tank, make sure you put stickies on one of those vet2 rifle squads - hell, you really dont need that many bars - they arn't very effective and definately not worth the cost ESPECIALLY if you have more than one in a call-in

The most infuriating mistake though, was the calliope usage -  Take advantage of the calli's mobility, and move it in close to fire then back it off to recharge - The calliope is like a shotgun, and when you fire it at max range it might kill something but will ALWAYS do far less damage than it would if you fired from close or very close range.

[Apex]

Actually, there was one situation when DasGuntLord used some excellent micro management with 2 Shermans against 2 staggered paks.

[SachAxis]

lost to this stacked pair as well

lol,

[BoDyBaG2224TLS]

the calliope is like a shotgun

That is a great metaphor for the calliope, seriously.

[Mysthalin]

lost to this stacked pair as well

lol,

excuse moi?

[Ununoctium]

the calliope is like a shotgun

That is a great metaphor for the calliope, seriously.

I think this should go into the famous quotes section

[Kolath]

Good commentary, APEX!  Thank you!

[Apex]

Call me Apex.

[|-|Cozmo|-|]

ah yea, notice Apex has removed the rest of the CAPS!

[DasGuntLord01]

Very good commentary, apex, and thanks for the tips, but these two statements appear to clash.

4. Airborne Drops without purpose
Don't just drop airborne somewhere because you feel like it. If you drop behind enemy lines, do it with purpose. And then don't just run around in a blob looking for trouble. When you started to drop airborne, you broke your defensive lines and that just lead to a wild goose chase with troops all around the map and something like a frontline not existing. It allowed axis to cap a lot of territores.
You could have held the line when you would have just dropped inside your territory and then reinforced your defenses with the airborne.

and...

6. Platoon management
This was your biggest mistake. [sic] In total, I counted 6 lone Schrecker squads, killed by some airborne running around. That cost you the game.

So, my airborne were useless, but they won us the game?

The fact is, even though I may not have deployed them in the best fashion, they did a shiteload of damage.

Actually, there was one situation when DasGuntLord used some excellent micro management with 2 Shermans against 2 staggered paks.

Just my dumb luck, really.  It was a pretty intense moment, and I thought I was going to loose them.

[Pengu]

I'd agree with everything apex said except for.

6. Platoon management
This was your biggest mistake. Don't make platoons that only consist of AT, like 2 PaKs or 2 Double Schrecker squads. Always try to have a balanced force. You only started to bring AT in when they already had the tanks on the field, and then it was always way too much AT, and your schreckers got killed by their infantry. Communicate about this with your ally. In total, I counted 6 lone Schrecker squads, killed by some airborne running around. That cost you the game.

I disagree with that completely. Small specialized call ins are much more effective than half assed ones. Obviously I wouldn't go over board, but it is much more effective and efficient to overkill a tank than not to. I quite often bring in 2 pak call ins midgame to compliment my forces. As long as your forces on the field are balanced the make up of a platoon matters little in my experience.

[DasGuntLord01]

In a sense, I agree with Pengu.  If you have a large number of small, specialised callins, then you can mix and match them according to what you need on the field at any specific time.

It can fail, and mostly at mid-late game when you need large concentrations of well balanced troops quickly, but the reinforcement timers are too long for bringing in multiple groups.

The reverse, of course, is true with large, well balance call-ins.  You can get a large force on the field quickly, but what happens if you only need AT and the only AT you have is mixed with riflemen?

A balance of these two suffers from the strengths and weeknesses of both.

In the end, it is up to the player to determine how he wants to structure his company.  His own particular play-style will match well with his call-ins.

[Draken]

Apex gives good advices but, he put into them to much his tactic, he just want that u will have company layout like him. Ofcourse most of advices are so universal that every player should listen to them. And especialy I agree with Apex with mixed forces, for me they work best. I always got on the field decent anti tank forces and decent anti inft. Not great against inft but not weak.

[Apex]

The airborne and AT-platoon isssues are connected. Axis platoons were too AT intensive during midgame, that's what got them killed by roaming airborne. And only because Axis had little anti-infantry, did the airborne blob achieve to do damage.

I now also think I understand why your AT platoons are so heavy, it is because you bring so little AT in the start platoon. This leads to the usual situation that the lone PaK or lone Schreck squad is not enough to counter the first enemy tank, and then you need to call in a heavy AT platoon. In my oppinion it is far better to have sufficient AT in the start platoon that you then only need to complement from time to time.

Maybe I just need less AT. Right now I start with 2 Fausts and 1 PaK, and I have 2 double schrecker squads as reserve. And I havent been in a need for AT for a long time. It's all relative.

[DasGuntLord01]

In my oppinion it is far better to have sufficient AT in the start platoon that you then only need to complement from time to time.

I just played a game, with my start group augmented with an extra ATG (for a total of 2), and it worked very well.  So it seems you are right.

[Apex]

Talking about calliope shotguns, here is how to use them:

http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h99/CSHM-PiratesAhoy/Company%20of%20Heroes/?action=view&current=DeathofVet3KT.flv