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Poll
Question: Volks cost too much? (Revert to 170MP)
Yes - 74 (49%)
No - 77 (51%)
Total Voters: 150

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Author Topic: Expensive Volks  (Read 53313 times)
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UnLimiTeD2 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 131


« Reply #200 on: December 08, 2008, 09:06:16 am »

Agreed.
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Thtb Offline
The German Guy
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3875


« Reply #201 on: December 08, 2008, 09:40:56 am »

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Killer344 Offline
The Inquisitor
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Posts: 6904



« Reply #202 on: December 08, 2008, 09:49:50 am »

Ok, let me fix that.
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If I get shot and it's a gay medic fixing me up, he's not gonna be fondling my balls while he does it. You can't patch a chest wound and suck a cock at the same time.
Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18377


« Reply #203 on: December 08, 2008, 09:53:07 am »

Let's all vote on all our alt accounts!  Roll Eyes
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Killer344 Offline
The Inquisitor
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Posts: 6904



« Reply #204 on: December 08, 2008, 09:54:51 am »

Damn it.... ok Akra, just lock it :p.
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Thtb Offline
The German Guy
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3875


« Reply #205 on: December 08, 2008, 09:57:19 am »

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PrydainAllies Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 172


« Reply #206 on: December 08, 2008, 10:01:39 am »

Can I not make a black-border without you stealing the show?
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On July 25, 1909 Louis Blériot was the first man to fly from France, across the English Channel to Britain in a monoplane aircraft and on July 26, 1909 work on the anti-aircraft gun began. - Al Murry talking about necessity.
MistenTH Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 199


« Reply #207 on: December 17, 2008, 04:41:58 am »

Yea volks are too expensive and need to be cheaper. Fewer men harder for recrewing, and they have weaker combat ability.
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BlackBanana Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 56


« Reply #208 on: December 17, 2008, 06:54:13 am »

If you have ever played vCompany of Heroes Volks cost even more than rifles, they are as effective as standard allied infantry, they excel at long range too so they are perfect to defend positions, they can build wire and sandbags by default too (something that many players don't consider) use them in cover and don't move them much, let rifles charge you and you will easily win. Their stats are perfectly the same as rifles, including suppression. Anyway with blitzkrieg you can equip them with assault grenades that are terribly effective. Use them to support elite infantry and you are ok.
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sgMisten Offline
Donator
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Posts: 778


« Reply #209 on: December 17, 2008, 06:55:57 am »

Keep in mind vCoH upkeep.

4 riflesquads bring MP income from 270 down to 240.

4 volkssquads change MP income to like 250-260? Pretty significant.
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BlackBanana Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 56


« Reply #210 on: December 17, 2008, 07:23:36 am »

It is related to prices not to unit effectiveness. It is dimostrated that those units are equally effective, it's up to the range. Reinforcing costs are also different (135 vs 140) but equally integrated in the gameplay (volks build wire and bags, rifles cap faster, volks more healt, rifles more damage and more squadmembers etc.) Axis has also got an elite infantry unit that comes without choosing any doctrine. Cheaper volks would mean that the ratio rifleman squad/volksgrenadiers would be 1:1.3 for example (assuming no doctrine modifications) while it should be 1:1 (or lower, considering that axis got grenadiers too). for example I could buy 10 rifles as allies and 5 volks+5grenadiers as axis for the same manpower. That would be uncorrect according to me.
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sg31stPzGren Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 30


« Reply #211 on: December 17, 2008, 07:35:52 am »

It is related to prices not to unit effectiveness. It is dimostrated that those units are equally effective, it's up to the range.

Thats a contradictory statement.

Reinforcing costs are also different (135 vs 140)

Get your facts right. Volks are at 28 MP each, reinforce @ 112 because if u reinforce 5... ur squad is dead. Rifles are at 135MP. Falsifying facts here? Or genuine mistake?

(volks build wire and bags, rifles cap faster, volks more healt, rifles more damage and more squadmembers etc.)

In EiR, wires and sandbags are about as useful as the first M8/Halftrack/Armoured vehicle you see... and believe me they are quite common in EiR.

Axis has also got an elite infantry unit that comes without choosing any doctrine.

Discussion is about the pricing of volks vs rifleman, not about availability of elite infantry or diversity of troops.

Cheaper volks would mean that the ratio rifleman squad/volksgrenadiers would be 1:1.3 for example (assuming no doctrine modifications) while it should be 1:1 (or lower, considering that axis got grenadiers too). for example I could buy 10 rifles as allies and 5 volks+5grenadiers as axis for the same manpower. That would be uncorrect according to me.

10 x 200 MP = 2000 MP
5 x 240 MP = 1200 M
800MP / 5 = 160 MP

Since when did we suggest that volksgrenadiers should cost 160MP?Huh

Current ratio of Rifles to Volks is 1:1.025, which is laughable. I'll be more than happy to have a ratio of 1:1.1, which means volks will cost about 181MP, which is pretty close to what we propose at 180MP, which would be 1:1.11111.
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Kotyonok Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 81


« Reply #212 on: December 17, 2008, 07:52:29 am »

@sg31stPzGren
Thank you X]
I was about to pick what he said apart, but, you did it better than I could
No offence Banna (played with you a few times actually) but some of the things you said were laughable
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"Love is finding beauty within imperfections."
~Me
"Be the change that you want to see in the world."
~Ghandi
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
~Albert Einstein

That's my philosophy so far.
ImmanioEiR Offline
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Posts: 247


« Reply #213 on: December 17, 2008, 08:24:37 am »

Now, I'm still new to EiR, and no pro at vCoH either, but I'd like to contest the statement that wires and sandbags are useless once a vehicle comes along. I'd love to have the ability to have my rifles help my engineers lay out wire/bags, at least when setting up for defence. (Yes, I know infantry/airborne can get this for rifles/airborne, but I'm armour. Besides, taking into account doctrine abilities makes everything in this discussion a lot more complicated.) Sure, a light vehicle can run over it, but are you willing to send your puma (or even tank) driving into line of fire of my 57mm (and MG with AP rounds) in order to achieve it? That's an expensive gamble to make to open a gap in wire that I can set up again in 10 seconds if I repulse the attack. In combination with tank traps, even light/medium armour won't be able to get through, leaving it to heavy crush or schrecks/explosives/wire cutters. This is without mentioning the magical ability of wire to detect stealth units (like, say, schrecked stormtroopers coming for my calliope). I guess it is a bit cheesy, but some coils of wire can make it a lot harder for them to sneak up on me even when they don't block off entirely. Don't discount the cover from sandbags either. It may not be quite as good as "natural" green cover, but still beats yellow or no cover.

Two days ago, I met you in a 3v3 on Radar Station, PzGren (I assume PzGr3n was you, my pardon if I'm wrong). Now, by laying out some wire and sandbags, I managed to deflect the early probing attacks on the radar station, and from that point on, one MG and one 57mm were allowed to hold that place on their own, helped by the wire, sandbags, tank traps and mines. (I was thanking my lucky stars that no indirect fire came along). For all of the setup time, I had a rifle squad picking their noses and watching my engineers set up defences. I'm not saying it's a game turner, but certainly very far from useless.
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BlackBanana Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 56


« Reply #214 on: December 17, 2008, 08:25:52 am »

so I did some obviuos mistakes (I tought that volks came to 35 to reinforce) but just summary everything in one sentence: volks are as effective as rifles in combat so they should cost nearly the same IMHO. If I am correct you're sayng that volks have more weaknesses than rifles so they should cost less, is it right?

Adding: and of course what Immanio said about wire and bags is true imho.
Adding again: consider that if you have 20 rifles you spend 4000 mp, if you have 15 volks(180) and 5 grenadiers(240) you spend 3900... since grens>rifles you would have a big advantage.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 08:32:09 am by BlackBanana » Logged
PrydainAllies Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 172


« Reply #215 on: December 17, 2008, 08:44:28 am »

Wooooow! Lots of pointless writing.
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BlackBanana Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 56


« Reply #216 on: December 17, 2008, 08:46:59 am »

Well including yours...
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sg31stPzGren Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 30


« Reply #217 on: December 17, 2008, 08:50:08 am »

Sure, a light vehicle can run over it, but are you willing to send your puma (or even tank) driving into line of fire of my 57mm (and MG with AP rounds) in order to achieve it? That's an expensive gamble to make to open a gap in wire that I can set up again in 10 seconds if I repulse the attack.

The issue in question here is not the rifle's ability to do so but the axis volks ability to do so. Suicide crocs are common and they don't care about living or dying.

In combination with tank traps, even light/medium armour won't be able to get through, leaving it to heavy crush or schrecks/explosives/wire cutters. This is without mentioning the magical ability of wire to detect stealth units (like, say, schrecked stormtroopers coming for my calliope). I guess it is a bit cheesy, but some coils of wire can make it a lot harder for them to sneak up on me even when they don't block off entirely. Don't discount the cover from sandbags either. It may not be quite as good as "natural" green cover, but still beats yellow or no cover.

I'm saying that rifles should be more expensive, and volks are cheaper precisely for these reasons you state. Tank traps.

Two days ago, I met you in a 3v3 on Radar Station, PzGren (I assume PzGr3n was you, my pardon if I'm wrong).

You're very wrong unfortunately... and sandbags, wire or tank traps has never posed a problem for me. My opponents rarely have the luxury of building the Maginot/Siegfried line.
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martin_the_monkey Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 22


« Reply #218 on: December 17, 2008, 09:00:48 am »

the poll is pointless Total Voters: 132 i don't think so how many people have logged on with here 5 or 6 different company accounts to vote yes 5 times or vote no 5 times
what's the point in voting if people are going to cheat pluss axis should win this vote easy cuz there are more axis players who on the axis team would vote no to cheaper men ? any one who says they would is a lier or a traitor!
making this whole thing a bit pointless
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Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18377


« Reply #219 on: December 17, 2008, 09:10:31 am »

Quote
Wooooow! Lots of pointless writing.

˛
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