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Author Topic: Ritters Newbie Thread  (Read 12505 times)
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MannfredvonRitter Offline
EIR Member
Posts: 375


« on: January 28, 2009, 11:24:08 pm »

Now I'm not going to say any specific tricks or tools to people but I was hoping to give some basic advice for people new to EiR, things I've seen brand new players make mistakes in. The advice here will be basic and is designed to help new players get accustomed to the war things work. Veterans may like to point flaws or how this certain trick can counter what they have, don't. This isn't exhaustive, but it will help new people with their first game.

1. First Call In
1.1 Your first call in, should have at least TWO pieces of anti tank equipment.
1.2 Your first call in should not constitute a heavy tank (pershing, tiger, king tiger).
1.3 Your first call in on the defensive should have at least ONE HMG, on the offensive at least one unilateral weapon, that is a weapon that can't be fired back upon. (sniper, mortar).

2. Force Construction
2.1 You should endeavor to have a wide variety of units. Something like 15-20% of units in anti tank capacities, a wide variety of armour and as much infantry as you can manage. The number varies but I would argue adequate infantry is from 12 or more.
2.2 Don't rely upon a single unit to win the game, have multiple tactics and units for every purpose.

3. Force Multipliers
3.1 These are units which help against blobbing.
3.2 They include: Anti infantry tanks, mortars, hmgs and grenades.

4. Conservation of Forces
4.1This is EiR, not vCoH, so endeavor to keep your units alive, if you see a crocodile or an ostwind running towards your infantry whom have no anti tank weaponry, fall back until you can bring some AT weaponry up. 9/10 a skilled opponent won't chase you for fear of anti tank weaponry, enabling you to save your unit.

4.2 Use units in their proper role, don't have long range bazooka/shrek battles with tanks. Use them short range/flanks or in support of actual anti tank weaponry, for example.

5. Communication
5.1 Get Ventrillo
5.2 Communicate what you are intending to do or what's happening, your opponent may have seen that King Tiger rolling up a flank, or he may not. Let him know.
5.3 Intending to send that pershing into a heroic attack? Let your ally know, don't scream for help when your tank is dying, it's too late.

6. Basic Force Setup Suggestions
6.1 3 Anti Tank Guns
6.2 3 Sources of infantry based anti tank weaponry (RR's, Bazookas, Sticky Bombs).
6.3 At least 12 Squads of BASIC infantry, with or without upgrades.
6.4 1-2 Sources of indirect fire
6.5 At least 3 heavier armoured vehicles (sherman, M10, panzer4, king tiger etc)
6.6 At least 3 HMG's.

I know veterans will deviate from this into other sucessful tactics, this is however designed for someone taking their first steps.

I know there are other guides, but they are more exhaustive than this. They will help a player more, but I wrote this in a very structured basic manner which will help a new player overcome a few basic hurdles.

I'm happy to take suggestions but I would like to keep it short, concise and very easy to read.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 11:28:17 pm by MannfredvonRitter » Logged

Lai Offline
Propaganda Minister
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Posts: 3061


« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 11:35:56 pm »

You should write them as commandments
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Igawa Offline
EIR Member
Posts: 113


« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2009, 12:10:28 am »

Cool thread Ritter, bout time we had something like this. I'm gonna put in a few cents of my own...

1. Have a pool of 5-6 starting platoons, which you can mix and match. They should all be approximately 8-14 pop and have a wide variety of abilities. This is extremely useful especially if you are on the defensive, because you can tailor your start to what doctrines the enemy is, and even way more important if you have starting recon runs or Military Intel avaliable...it could mean the difference between a breakthrough and a stall. DON'T try for this immediately. This takes experimentation and time to figure out!

 For example, the way I have my company setup, I can go between a start such as Manfred is suggesting, P4/flammen , full inf, 88+inf+pak, or even a Panther/Officer/Gren start (worked well for that battle)

2. Your troops are FRAGILE! Don't play the hero with them! Blobbing is only appropriate when the route has been scouted beforehand, or (barely appropriate), if you are doing it with airborne. Stick to cover if you are fending off attacks, and DO pull your troops away from blobs...a lone gren or rifle squad is NOT going to hold off 3x enemy...as soon as you see something like that, just run them back and keep your troops alive. If doing so gives up the flank, don't worry about it. Now they have to support their blob sitting pretty behind the frontline, and if you can exert enough sideways pressure, you can usually give the offending troops a really hard time.

3. Listen to the fog. Tanks are noisy, and their sound is great to help alert you of flank attacks. Works with Infantry too, but less easy.

4. Observe what is pulling it's weight (and what isn't). If you play through a bunch of games and see that your X squad of whatever really pwns when supported by Y, then it's probably a good thing to protect during the game. Things like the KT, Tigers, nebels, howies, stukas, 88s, mortars, snipers can all be used to great effect....or almost none at all. Pay attention to how much those expensive units do each game, because if you don't know how to use them to their maximum effectiveness, or your playing style doesn't mesh with them very well, then don't bother with them. a KT is more expensive than 2 P4s, and they might be more useful/get more kills/be easier to keep alive.

And a secondary point is the NEED to know when to bring them on. Don't bring on your KT or Pershing or sniper if you are being swamped on your flanks with infantry. Don't try setting up your 88 while the front is still in contention. Don't bring a calliope in when a panther is rampaging around and you have no AT. You'll definitely make mistakes such as these (god knows I still do it once in a while), but realize what happened and carry the experience onwards.

Tips for Defensive Doctrine players:

1. MI is your friend. Especially with the spate of advances axis has had recently, MI is super super good at finding that hole in the enemy line and then tailoring your start to smash through. Don't waste the second shot though!

2. Officers are not as bad as they seem, used properly. Over the last 20 or so games, I have never lost an officer to enemy bullets (even snipers!). Usually he gets run over or strafed or a lucky tank shell. They have great survivability and their mortar barrage rapes buildings nicely. Also, you can use supervision to tack him to a double LMG squad and end up with a team which can hold off 2x BAR rifles by itself (I've done that and more....20 kills on the gren squad is not that uncommon for me by mid-late game, assuming good fortune.)

EDIT: Forgot to mention though....if you can't make the officer last a decent time (usually I can keep him on field for between half to a whole game), then he isn't pulling his weight. He needs to be around and buffing your troops and support weapons, or the 240 mun he cost was a waste, cause he can't kill stuff on his own.

3. Large Rockets is NOT as good as it seems. Unless you're going for Rocket arty, go for elite soldiers instead. Stukas and Nebels (for me anyway) don't pull their weight, and are hunted mercilessly. Elite soldiers lets you pump out the vet fast, and takes a lot of stress off when you lose a vet 2 unit, versus constantly babying your stukas.

Aaaaand that's a big enough monologue I think O.o; Hope these tips come in handy to any budding player

P.S. Axis....BLOBBING IS BAD....unless you want the business end of a calliope.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 12:43:55 am by Igawa » Logged
CommanderHolt Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 600


« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2009, 12:12:58 am »

Not Commandments, it would be boring if everybody companies followed this to the hilt.

HOWEVER, it is very good information for new players, I think it deserves a sticky.
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MannfredvonRitter Offline
EIR Member
Posts: 375


« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2009, 12:19:46 am »

Not Commandments, it would be boring if everybody companies followed this to the hilt.

HOWEVER, it is very good information for new players, I think it deserves a sticky.

Thanks, I didn't want people to follow it always, just help them get used to EiR.
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MistenTH Offline
EIR Member
Posts: 199


« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2009, 12:30:13 am »

This is good, but there are other threads all scattered about as well, it's unlikely for a newbie to find all of them, let alone read all of them.

What really needs to be done is to update the 'Ultimate Guide' on the EIR menu, cause that's most likely what a newbie will click on. It'd be great if the info on that is updated then links to guides like this added on.

Unknown, do you know whether EiR:R is coming out within 2 weeks? If not, this weekend I can do a simple write up and update the ultimate guide. If EiR:R is coming out within a few days then there wouldn't be any point.
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Igawa Offline
EIR Member
Posts: 113


« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2009, 12:40:36 am »

Maybe a good idea for the 'ultimate guide' would also to include links to stuff like this. Perhaps not this thread exactly, but things like APEX's Panther Ace guide, which was probably the biggest help to my heavy tanks than anything. Or the Officer tutorial. Stuff like that is really informative once you get off the training wheels and want to try out new builds.
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MannfredvonRitter Offline
EIR Member
Posts: 375


« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2009, 01:29:43 am »

This is simpler than other works for new people. To be honest, much of what I see in the new player sections is "a lot of words". The art of being concise is lost. The new players need a simple and straight forwards guide. They will search out and seek other guides as they develop new tactics and techniques. This is a very simple and basic guide just to get them on their feet.

How many people would read a 20 page guide to play a game? Not many.
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Sach Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1211


« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2009, 10:23:33 am »

I would add, If you are attacking (and tbh if you are defending too) bring ATLEAST 1 way to deal with mgs. The amount of newbies i see charge on to the map and then pull up at the first hmg with no idea how to get around it...

Secondly Map control is as important, if not more important, than keeping your units alive and killing the other dues units.
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Sach Wins! Cheesy

Would people please stop killing my AVREs. Not cool.
MannfredvonRitter Offline
EIR Member
Posts: 375


« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2009, 10:38:20 am »

I would add, If you are attacking (and tbh if you are defending too) bring ATLEAST 1 way to deal with mgs. The amount of newbies i see charge on to the map and then pull up at the first hmg with no idea how to get around it...

Secondly Map control is as important, if not more important, than keeping your units alive and killing the other dues units.

True, I did mention indirectfire or unilateral weapons, but it may be worth mentioning the usage of them briefly.

I think the newbie mistake is to throw units in too much? Rather than to be too conservative, I could be wrong though.
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Kolath Offline
Commander, 2nd Infantry Division
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Posts: 2378



« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 10:43:05 am »

Excellent thread, MannfredvonRitter!  Sickied  Cheesy
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Unkn0wn Offline
Retired
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Posts: 18125


« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 02:42:33 pm »

It's not worth updating the ultimate guide anymore. We'll have an updated version ready shortly after EIRR launches I'm sure.
(And plenty of video tutorials at launch)
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MannfredvonRitter Offline
EIR Member
Posts: 375


« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 11:31:31 pm »

It's not worth updating the ultimate guide anymore. We'll have an updated version ready shortly after EIRR launches I'm sure.
(And plenty of video tutorials at launch)

The ultimate guide is still the ultimate guide, but this is a short quick version for people who just want to jump in.
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Smithy17 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 756


« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2009, 05:02:59 am »

It's not worth updating the ultimate guide anymore. We'll have an updated version ready shortly after EIRR launches I'm sure.
(And plenty of video tutorials at launch)
Maybe put in it that 'much of it is out of date' at the top in big red letters. Just to warn new people.
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kilob Offline
EIR Recruit
Posts: 11


« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2009, 04:35:10 pm »

dang...... i've tried to use all of these tactics and all but they never help; i still always lose......
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