How should we nerf the calli?

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[CafeMilani]

When offmaps and doctrines come in, this unit will not dominate as much as it currently does.

I'm scared shitless for this day. The game is so nice right now without offmaps.

yes me too =/

all kind of arty is lame, except for mortars!!!

[BigDick]

Increasing the cool down sounds good - but I really liked the idea of adding lockdown

Will definately be discussing this one!

that would change nothing to add a lockdown

a panzer4 needs an average of 10 shots to kill a calliope (not included the misses while moving)
there for he has to survive the breakthrough enemy lines and the 10 shoots

meanwhile a calliope can drive around the most maps to almost each position it want

to add a 5 seconds lockdown give the panzer4 maybe a free shot....that change nothing

[CafeMilani]

Increasing the cool down sounds good - but I really liked the idea of adding lockdown

Will definately be discussing this one!

that would change nothing to add a lockdown

a panzer4 needs an average of 10 shots to kill a calliope (not included the misses while moving)
there for he has to survive the breakthrough enemy lines and the 10 shoots

meanwhile a calliope can drive around the most maps to almost each position it want

to add a 5 seconds lockdown give the panzer4 maybe a free shot....that change nothing

es it would change things in combinaton with the other points.
im talking about a lockdown with 10-15secs cooldown

[Mysthalin]

When offmaps and doctrines come in, this unit will not dominate as much as it currently does.

I'm scared shitless for this day. The game is so nice right now without offmaps.

yes me too =/
all kind of arty is lame, except for mortars!!!

So all kind of arty is lame if the axis side of it isn't the better one...
I love off-maps, added such a big layer of strategy into the game, not having them seriously makes the game inferior.

The P4 does NOT need an average of 10 shots to kill a calliope, get your facts straight. It does not need to move all the way while shooting at the cali, because it can... (omg) outrun it and block it!

[BigDick]

The P4 does NOT need an average of 10 shots to kill a calliope, get your facts straight. It does not need to move all the way while shooting at the cali, because it can... (omg) outrun it and block it!

P4 need 10 shots average to kill a calliope (not included misses)

a calliope has 636 HP and a P4 shoot does 87,5HP damage when it penetrates

when it don't penetrate it does much less damage damage

and if it can outrun a calliope depends on the map....
with wide open space maybe but as far as it need to stop or drive around something
calliope can make a huge advance because of 1/3 more acceleration

and that is it what makes vehicles work some kind of slowly (and why sherman vet1 with speed buff was kind of useless in EiR)

and acceleration is it what makes a panther looking such a fast tank

[Mysthalin]

636/87.5 = 7.26
That means, it will on average kill a calliope in 8 hits, while being capable of killing it in 7, with a lucky critical.
If it doesn't penetrate it still does 15 percent damage, which is 13 damage, and that is still quite useful... Remember, that if the calliope reverses away from the P4, it can't outrun it in any situation, and is prone to a pathing failure. If it runs in full speed with it's ass shown, it always gets penetrated and has a very high chance to get damaged engine if it's shot in the ass at yelow health(basicaly 2 P4 shots will put it into yellow).

[BigDick]

636/87.5 = 7.26
That means, it will on average kill a calliope in 8 hits, while being capable of killing it in 7, with a lucky critical.
If it doesn't penetrate it still does 15 percent damage, which is 13 damage, and that is still quite useful... Remember, that if the calliope reverses away from the P4, it can't outrun it in any situation, and is prone to a pathing failure. If it runs in full speed with it's ass shown, it always gets penetrated and has a very high chance to get damaged engine if it's shot in the ass at yelow health(basicaly 2 P4 shots will put it into yellow).

penetration of Panzer4 against a calliope is only 62,3 % means your 8 shots will take

8*0.623*87.5+8*0.375*0.15*87.5=447.32 HP

since the calliope has 636HP that will be obviously not enough

[Scyntos]

This is all irrelative gentlemen. There's no telling whether you'll be getting rear armor the whole time.. front armor bounces. You can't say it takes *x* amount of anything because it all depends on the corresponding micro and dice rolls. Even 'Average' amount of shots is irrelevant.

[Mysthalin]

It will actually take 486.5 HP, not 447.32, with the "average" chance, which is not that prone to happening. And if 149.5 is too much to take down afterwards(a single pak shot is enough to kill it with the 1st strike modifier as it will put the calliope into red HP where it has a chance to crit it into death/destroyed engine)

[VariantThirteen]

The average is quite relevant - it gives facts to support a viewpoint - in this case that the Calliope is unreasonably hard to kill for a PIV in most situations.

[Schultz]

I chased a calli with my p4 the other day, first 2 bounces (one rear, one front) then miss, then a hit. The calli flew to safety :p
I couldnt help wondering what if it was a priest, hummel.

[Smokaz]

I love how the "side" trying to downplay the neccessity of nerfing the calliope will compare it to supertanks, light vehicles and mortars.

Everything but the other artillery in the game seems like a valid item of comparison.

Maybe because if you DO look at the calliope in the light of the other artillery, you see how insanely powerful, easymode and survivalfest this unit is.

[tank130]

I never understood all the criticism of the Calli, as I always play Amis.
Yesterday I played axis...OMFG that Calli is terrifying. I tried to flank and take it out, but it ran to protection. But, as the enemy protected it, my team mates were able to advance.

After the defense ripped me apart and the Calli survived, the Calli devastated my team mates advance and we were back to where we started with a lot less units to work with.

The Calli felt way overpowered as an axis player. But I have to say, 2 nights cross paired with 2 double shreks and a flamer was able to rape everything else.....until the Calli squished my blob 

[Smokaz]

Tank130, out of the closet! Praise the redeemed sinner, speaking God's truth about the devil worshipping that is the Calliope.

[Tymathee]

i've killed lots of callies playing as wehr and pe, so i guess thats why i just dont get it. As someone who's played a lot with callies, i just know how to counter them. If you're pe, knock out the engine and you critically reduce its effectiveness.

[BigDick]

i've killed lots of callies playing as wehr and pe, so i guess thats why i just dont get it. As someone who's played a lot with callies, i just know how to counter them. If you're pe, knock out the engine and you critically reduce its effectiveness.

show us replays (no noobbash) were you advance against calliopes as PE and Wehr
were you effective cripple them and kill them or scare them offmap (with efficient usage of ressources)

your attempt to rule with the PE hummel (as you promised us) was in the replay found in replay section, a complete fail

 

enlighten us how to handle callis and show us l2p

[TheDeadlyShoe]

The lockdown would actually serve two purposes: slowing down the calliope's ability to instantly respond to targets of opportunity, and slowing down its ability to escape retribution.  It's long been known that the calli is extremely vulnerable while firing; the vulnerable period would last longer. 

and 15s is WAY too long.

It was just brainstorming though.

[VariantThirteen]

Come on Tym, stop being rediculous - sneak a paper IHT through and destroy its engines so that it can be repaired behind the lines by an Engi squad? Remember, the Treadbreaker doesn't do much damage, so the status is quickly gotten rid of. . .

[TheDeadlyShoe]

All it takes is one shrek hit to make fast repair impractical. If you can get an ATHT in, you can get a IHT in. Or a Hetzer, or a Marder.

[MannfredvonRitter]

i've killed lots of callies playing as wehr and pe, so i guess thats why i just dont get it. As someone who's played a lot with callies, i just know how to counter them. If you're pe, knock out the engine and you critically reduce its effectiveness.

No offense, but no one has seen you play axis for more than a few games.