0.0.4 Changelog

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[MistenTH]

Note that new skirts actually make Pz4 able to take more damage due to reduction in penetration. Hmm didn't realise it before. So should we increase the cost of skirts, then?

I tried to attach my xls calculation file but the uploader doesn't seem to work. Btw this damage skirt thing seems to be taking up a lot of space on its own. Can a mod shift this discussion elsewhere regarding the skirts?

[Akranadas]

Just to reiterate:

PLEASE NOTE: We are aware that a lot of these changes will dictate the NEED for price adjustments.  We have not done any price adjustments YET, we want to see how they play out in real functioning fashion before deciding the correct route to go.  Price changes will be regular and rapid after release.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

piats do need to go up to 95 or 100. they are much better against heavy armor now.

[CafeMilani]

we should rather discuss the biggest problems, the emplacements!

[SaintPauli]

 

My stats are NOT wrong. We are just presenting similar data in different ways.

Yes they are because 0.5 modifier is not always the same as 50% less damage.

Do you agree with this?
Bazooka Damage:
No skirts: 120
New skirts 90 (also penetrates 25% less)
Old skirts 37.5

[MistenTH]

My stats are NOT wrong. We are just presenting similar data in different ways.

Yes they are because 0.5 modifier is not always the same as 50% less damage.

Do you agree with this?
Bazooka Damage:
No skirts: 120
New skirts 90 (also penetrates 25% less)
Old skirts 37.5

No, old skirts is damage of 60, not 37.5. 37.5 is only if you take 50% of 75, which is base bazooka damage without the 1.6x. Your numbers of 120 and 90 are based on 1.6x multiplier of 120, not 75. So your 3 data points there are using inconsistent bazooka damage versus the Pz4.

I've already posted all my results a few posts above in terms of %, hits to kill, weighing in penetration, even accuracy. I've even compared between 1.6x and 1.0x multipliers. Look through what I've post, it should be clear. I'd attach my calculations except that the uploader isn't working atm.

[stumpster]

Base DMG: 75
Normal vs. PzIV: 75 x 1.6 = 120
Old Skirts: 75 x .5 = 37.5
New Skirts: 75 x 1.2 = 90

This is purely from a damage perspective.  However, factoring in the penetration change breaks about even from the front.  Where this is really noticeable is from rear armor hits where you effectively ignore the penetration buff that Skirts give.

[MistenTH]

Base DMG: 75
Normal vs. PzIV: 75 x 1.6 = 120
Old Skirts: 75 x .5 = 37.5
New Skirts: 75 x 1.2 = 90

This is purely from a damage perspective.  However, factoring in the penetration change breaks about even from the front.  Where this is really noticeable is from rear armor hits where you effectively ignore the penetration buff that Skirts give.

Wait, so those modifiers being used are 1.6x, 0.5x and 1.2x? Ok in that case I've used the wrong modifiers, sorry pauli. But then, how did relic come up with 50% and 25% damage reductions. That has no relationship with 1.6, 0.5 and 1.2. Or with 120, 73.5 and 90.

[SaintPauli]

 

Base DMG: 75
Normal vs. PzIV: 75 x 1.6 = 120
Old Skirts: 75 x .5 = 37.5
New Skirts: 75 x 1.2 = 90

This is purely from a damage perspective.  However, factoring in the penetration change breaks about even from the front.  Where this is really noticeable is from rear armor hits where you effectively ignore the penetration buff that Skirts give.

No the 25% less penetration does not break even with the huge damage increase. It is on average about twice as effective now.

Wait, so those modifiers being used are 1.6x, 0.5x and 1.2x? Ok in that case I've used the wrong modifiers, sorry pauli. But then, how did relic come up with 50% and 25% damage reductions. That has no relationship with 1.6, 0.5 and 1.2. Or with 120, 73.5 and 90.

Yes the new modifier is 1.6 x 0.75 = 1.2.

The 50% is just something that always have been stated on forums even though it not entirely accurate.

[gamesguy2]

No the 25% less penetration does not break even with the huge damage increase. It is on average about twice as effective now.

Yes the new modifier is 1.6 x 0.75 = 1.2.

The 50% is just something that always have been stated on forums even though it not entirely accurate.

Old skirts was hilariously overpowered, whats your point?

Also the new skirts reduce damage taken from ATGs by 10%.  Which may or may not gets you that extra shot from a 57mm before you die.

[SaintPauli]

Old skirts was hilariously overpowered, whats your point?

Also the new skirts reduce damage taken from ATGs by 10%.  Which may or may not gets you that extra shot from a 57mm before you die.

First of all I started by saying I like the skirt change so don’t give me that bull shit. What I am saying is that the price needs to go up on the Bazookas and PIATs (RR only have a 1.0 dam modifier and was slightly overpriced before so they are fine). Also skirt prices need to reflect change. 

[gamesguy2]

Old skirts was hilariously overpowered, whats your point?

Also the new skirts reduce damage taken from ATGs by 10%.  Which may or may not gets you that extra shot from a 57mm before you die.

First of all I started by saying I like the skirt change so don’t give me that bull shit. What I am saying is that the price needs to go up on the Bazookas and PIATs (RR only have a 1.0 dam modifier and was slightly overpriced before so they are fine). Also skirt prices need to reflect change. 

Bazookas were NOT a good investment vs wehr pre-.04.   They were only useful against PE light vehicles.

Piats need a price increase, but that has nothing to do with the skirts nerf and everything to do with their new stats.

[salan]

I don't quite understand why bazooka's or any allied manpack should change price because of a skirt change, you lose me there.

The skirts are one of the things I am watching to see if THEY need a price change, but nothing was changed on the bazooka's, don't expect their prices to change.

[AmPM]

Hmm....well, time to drop all the IHTs, no longer useful to fight from I don't think.

[SaintPauli]

I don't quite understand why bazooka's or any allied manpack should change price because of a skirt change, you lose me there.

Because bazookas and PIATs now do twice the amount of damage to skirted units. Should that not be reflected on price??? 

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Bazookas have been this price for like, a year. I think they were this way even when skirts were vet linked.

[SaintPauli]

I cannot understand that people cannot see that a change resulting in double effectiveness of PIATs and Bazookas against panthers and P4s should result in a price change??? It is simply beyond my comprehension… I guess time will show.     

[salan]

you are wrong sir. they were not changed vrs panthers or p4s.  your argument is wrong.

they were changed against skirts.

Bazookas will NOT get a price change because of that.  Skirts might.

[Schultz]

I took all skirts out from p4s, they're worthless. Everything will penetrate.
I should run a full infantry with some artillery company.
We're living in blobbing times, in case you haven't noticed.

[SaintPauli]

I took all skirts out from p4s, they're worthless. Everything will penetrate.
I should run a full infantry with some artillery company.
We're living in blobbing times, in case you haven't noticed.

I took away all medium and heavy tanks...