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[Schultz]

Wehr has been OP since reinforcements was released.  And I'd also like to laugh at schultz complaining about American support weapon spam when he is probably the biggest wehr support weapon spammer in the game, and the wehr version is far superior.

You among others have clearly no idea what spam is. One mg, mortar and pak at the field is the very basic of the combined arms one could field. But then again you dont learn this at retail. Its not my fault if you struggle against it.
Also my playstyle as allies is no different than as axis, stop whining.

A couple of games back i had like 2 mgs in my company, then i added one to get it to what it is now, so yeah i guess i spam.

[Malevolence]

Support is support, combined support or not it's still support weapons. All factions use support to a heavy degree except Panzer Elite now.

[Schultz]

Its no combined support, its combined arms. You cant get away with just support teams, you need everything. Yah, pe suffer to that department.

[gamesguy2]

Wehr has been OP since reinforcements was released.  And I'd also like to laugh at schultz complaining about American support weapon spam when he is probably the biggest wehr support weapon spammer in the game, and the wehr version is far superior.

You among others have clearly no idea what spam is. One mg, mortar and pak at the field is the very basic of the combined arms one could field. But then again you dont learn this at retail. Its not my fault if you struggle against it.
Also my playstyle as allies is no different than as axis, stop whining.

A couple of games back i had like 2 mgs in my company, then i added one to get it to what it is now, so yeah i guess i spam.

Ya because retail is all about the volkspamming...oh wai.

When you play nothing but dual wehr with maxed out or near maxed out support weapons, ya its spam.  I have two 17 pounders, 1 bofors, and 1 MG nest in my Brit company and you called me an emplacement spammer.  What do you call someone with twice my support weapons?

Can't wait for offmaps.

[AmPM]

I love all the complaints of support spam. Nothing has changed on the stats and yet, when I had 8 HMGs in my old companies + Mortars + PAKs + Nebels it wasn't considered spam, it was normal.

Now that 3-4 HMGs are normal, how can you consider a mix of support weapons + infantry on field spam?

Or is that just your way of saying, "This playstyle makes me feel bad about myself, lets use the word spam because it has negative connotations."

Maybe I should start whining about armor spam, since PE AT options are kinda weak. Yea, that's the ticket! Using more than 1 tank per company is unfair!

[Schultz]

I dont care what you have now. You guys had 2 mortars, boffors, two 17 pounders (one at the left, one at the right) and two arti units on the field, not to mention a shit load of trenches. And all that in a map like nuenen.

And you whine about an mg and mortar on the field.
Nearly maxed out mgs ? You have no idea how ridiculous that make you sound. You should have played before EIRR so you could have a good idea of what spam is, instead of being naive about it.

I play all factions, im just not as biased or exaggerating in what i say like you.
Just so you know, its called combined arms, it works, you should try it.

You should have played against heavy support doctrine back in the days, and omniscience on rtc. That would teach you support spam.

[gamesguy2]

I dont care what you have now. You guys had 2 mortars, boffors, two 17 pounders (one at the left, one at the right) and two arti units on the field, not to mention a shit load of trenches. And all that in a map like nuenen.

And you whine about an mg and mortar on the field.
Nearly maxed out mgs ? You have no idea how ridiculous that make you sound. You should have played before EIRR so you could have a good idea of what spam is, instead of being naive about it.

I play all factions, im just not as biased or exaggerating in what i say like you.
Just so you know, its called combined arms, it works, you should try it.

Yes having twice the number of emplacements in support weapons is not spam, but 2-3 emplacements becomes spam.

You should have played against heavy support doctrine back in the days, and omniscience on rtc. That would teach you support spam.

I did, its called offmaps. 

Same response to you AMPM.   Its called offmaps.   They raped support spam, no such thing exists here.

[.]

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[Unkn0wn]

My company composition before and after EIRR for wehr and americans is practically identical.

[Mysthalin]

6 HMGs vs 30 rifles compared to 4 HMGs vs 12 rifles. Different Rifle/HMG ratio, different views on spam.
Also, don't forget the fact there's no offmaps. 4 HMGs seems more like spam than 6 when you don't have acess to offmaps.

[EscforrealityTLS]

Fuck off-maps, this is not spam, like Schultz said it called combined arms. Just because you can't fight a well rounded and intelligent tactic stop calling for the nerf hammer.

There are more that enough tactic and weapons available to players to fight all the different support weapons, just use them.

[Mysthalin]

Lol, it's not combined arms when there's 4 HMGs and 3 paks on the field, as well as 2 mortars. That is really spam, you can't deny it.

And frankly, you're crying for the removal of off-maps because you can't deal with them because all you do is spam. I can turn it around in a flawed manner just as you can. Seriously, offmaps added an immense tactical layer to the game, and with no off-maps in the game, the overall skill level of everyone in the community has dropped significantly. You think people would blob those PIATs if there was a chance of rocket arty suddenly insta-raping it? You think we'd see 4 KCH + 2 shreks running around if you could get "lolwtf" strafed? You think we'd see 6 emplacements clumped up in the middle of RTC if firestorm+V1 was available? Off-maps are awesome, and as you've told us in your flawed logic for around 50 times now "Learn to counter them".

[Malevolence]

I dont care what you have now. You guys had 2 mortars, boffors, two 17 pounders (one at the left, one at the right) and two arti units on the field, not to mention a shit load of trenches. And all that in a map like nuenen.

Dunno what "a map like nuenen" has to do with it. Both sides fielded a lot of support that game.

And you whine about an mg and mortar on the field.
Nearly maxed out mgs ? You have no idea how ridiculous that make you sound. You should have played before EIRR so you could have a good idea of what spam is, instead of being naive about it.

Both he and I played extensively before reinforcements released. In fact he had two units of KCH on the "most XP" leaderboard, I've had a panther there, some KCH there, almost got a tiger there. I must've played over 150 games of regular EiR, I know he played at least 50, probably more like 100.

I play all factions, im just not as biased or exaggerating in what i say like you.
Just so you know, its called combined arms, it works, you should try it.

Gamesguy plays all factions I'm pretty sure, I play all factions except Panzer Elite.

As for "combined arms", yes, both of us had a lot of arm combinations. Lots of support, lots of infantry, lots of tanks...

You should have played against heavy support doctrine back in the days, and omniscience on rtc. That would teach you support spam.

Both I and Gamesguy played doom fortress defensive at one point or another in original EiR. We figured it was unfair and boring and went with assault grenade and tiger spam instead.

[Schultz]

Lol, it's not combined arms when there's 4 HMGs and 3 paks on the field, as well as 2 mortars. That is really spam, you can't deny it.

So in addition to seeing schrek blobs you now see also 4 hmgs and 3 paks on the field making a huge support blob i imagine ?


Lets drop it to one MG vs 5 rifles. I say SPAM, dont you ?

[Mysthalin]

Schultz, please refrain from insulting me implying that I'm seeing things.
If you're blind and biased, doesn't mean everyone else should be.

[Smokaz]

Most maps help support spam achieve greatness by making mg42s and paks even better than they are. The 2v2 maps are all very support spammy, imo.

[Schultz]

You are one of those guys man, and franky im fed up reading about non-existing spam and invincible schrek blobs.
The devs took a long way to narrow spam, including pps and costs and its one of the things that has worked so far for werhmacht and american factions. The crazy companies one was allowed to make dont exist. And if one tries hes gonna hurt in terms of pp and advancement in the long run.

[sgMisten]

Most maps help support spam achieve greatness by making mg42s and paks even better than they are. The 2v2 maps are all very support spammy, imo.

That's related more to map size than anything else; 2v2 maps tend to be smaller. However, number of chokepoints matters too.

It's like the maginot line, assaulting it head on is suicide in terms of cost unless you are willing to lose a lot more; flanking is a much better option, except when the map doesn't give you room to.

In that case, it's either [1] accept having heavy losses to break through, [2] breakthrough HT / tanks / commando drops [3] artillery!

[gamesguy2]

In EIR the Americans dealt with support spam as well, but it wasn't imbalaned back then because of two things:

1. Offmaps, practically every company had them.   My best 105 barrage in my tank reaper company killed like a pak+ a MG covering it + 2 mortars sitting next to them.   Strafe/bombing run was even more brutal on support weapons.  So was the DRR calli.

2. Unit spam.   30 rifle companies were the norm for infantry company.  Raid assault companies often had 20 airborne all with fireup and the crazy raid assault buff.   Armor companies had the uber scouting jeep and often spammed them and M8s.

None of this exist here.  The number of support weapons barely decreased. I had a 6 MGs and 4 paks in my fatherland defense doomfort company in EIR.  It was so incredibly boring after a while I changed to blitz and started over despite my defensive company being on like the top 10 most vetted list.  I run 4 MGs and 4 paks in my current blitz wehr company just like 90% of other competent wehr players.    Instead of facing 20 raid assault airborne, 5 strafing runs, 30 riflemen, super jeeps that take 3 pak shots to kill etc.  I'm face.... 12 riflemen.

You can see why its such a huge problem.   I don't even bother playing wehr anymore, its just too easy.   All you need is dual wehr support spam with stormtroopers, stuh/ostwinds, and some arty, and you can pretty much win against anyone of comparable skill level.