Some British Notes

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[Nanaki]

Recon Sections: Their recon ability is great, and while they are okay standard infantry, I find that they are not very useful beyond that. Marksman has too low a range, too high a reload time. Assuming they have the same debuffs as regular CoH Recon Sections, even vanilla tommies would perform better as line infantry. The only reason I use them currently is because of the rather heavy Storm/PAK usage you typically see from the Axis. That, and MGs can usually stop any infantry charge dead in its tracks. The only change I would suggest here is that Marksman actually be made useful beyond a 'I kill a random, meaningless infantry unit in a random, meaningless squad during a firefight.' ability. Their ability to detect camouflaged units is also hampered by low actual detection range and the fact they cannot camouflage themselves in order to properly get close.

Commandos: Considering that they are just tommies with smoke and MP40s, they seem a little overpriced for what they actually do. They do not have elite armor and their SMGs require that they be in short range, making them rather easy to cut down (even when smoke is used to obscure their advance). Gliders were also extremely, extremely overnerfed. I heard about them being used as gliderbombs initially, but now their glider ability is so terrible now that your better off just walking them to the front lines. Basically, now you wait 30 seconds for it to even call in (it usually takes that long just to walk to the front lines...), you cannot control the glider descent, the Glider takes longer to deploy making it easier to kill it before the Commandos even come out.

Commando HMG/Mortar: They are just regular allied support weapons. The HMG lacks AP rounds and the Mortar lacks smoke canisters. Although they do get a bonus in that they can actually fight back/escape if they get flanked, but, considering that even regular MG Teams seem to be made of concrete, the inferiority of allied support weapons, on top of only getting 2 Mortars/2 HMGs to begin with, makes me question the cost effectiveness. Still, they are not inferior enough as to be useless.

Stuart: One of the units screwed by the EIRR way of doing certain special abilities. The only reason you ever got a Stuart was Canister shot, and Canister shot's randomness means that you may have needed multiple in order to significantly dent a blob. Basically, you get an 85 mun, 1-shot weapon and afterwards the Stuart is a complete waste of manpower and fuel, making it a completely useless vehicle overall.

Lieutenants and Captains: Their bonuses are nice, but they are kind of fragile (especially since you need to keep the Lieutenant close to the main force in order to -use- his bonuses in the first place) and other than the one-shot 100mun FOO that Lieutenants get, they do not really have any other use. An idea I have been throwing around with FOO is to instead give it to the Captain and make it a timed ability instead of use ability, as well as increasing the munition cost of it by 50.

Casualty Clearing Station: Compared to the Triage, it sucks, badly. Being only able to heal every 4 minutes is vastly inferior to a constant-effect heal.

PIATs: Overpowered vs Infantry, fine vs vehicles. Their anti-vehicular capabilities are fine, since they never hit if you keep your distance and keep moving (PIATs are incredibly easy to kite). However, the fact they act like riflenades to infantry is a bit of a problem that should be fixed. Still, please, do not nerf the anti-tank capabilities. Driving a tank/vehicle into the middle of a British infantry force should be suicide, much like driving a Cromwell into a Wehrmacht infantry force is suicide.

British Tanks: Overall, I think they just... suck. The Tetrarch I have not used yet, but the Firefly and Cromwell seem to take far more pop than they are worth. Maybe it is because in retail I could afford to gang up 2 Fireflies and a command tank on a tiger, with the major popcap limitations, I can field 1 Firefly, 1 CT, and little else, so Tigers tend to make mincemeat of them. PAKs and Shreks also make mincemeat.

25 Pounders: I am not RCA, but I think they suck, badly. I once built one to try to counter a Stuka (I know it does not work in retail, but I wondered if it would work here). It ended up acting on its own and artyed some random location, giving away its position and causing it to be Stukaed to kingdom come. I never used it since. Oh yeah, and the range sucks on it too.

[DemonicTruism]

The Stuart isn't screwed by only having a single Canister shot. The M8 is better than the Stuart in all practical applications, and even it barely sees any use. Light tanks just don't have much of a role to play without doctrines to back them up.

Also, the PIAT is FAR too effective against the PIV IST. The PIV is unable to function effectively in any role because the PIAT is so strong.

[Smokaz]

The stuart is amazing on some maps. I run 3 of them into the support weapon start, canister shot the shreks and the pak, the stuarts rape everything else. ESPECIALLY on maps with a big fat red cover road and people just group selecting their core.

Stuart Light Tank (1.8 )
-Vet1 Received Accuracy 0.75
-Vet2 Damage 1.2, Speed 1.15, Additional use of Canister Round
-Vet3 Accuracy 1.2, Received Damage 0.85

Vet it up, I am fairly sure it becomes AMAZING with vet.

A vet 2 canister shot should wipe out anything.

[Nanaki]

The problem is, if that canister shot misses or does not wipe out the squad, you are thoroughly screwed.

Also, the PIAT is FAR too effective against the PIV IST. The PIV is unable to function effectively in any role because the PIAT is so strong.

One can say the same thing about the Sherman Crocodile vs Panzershreks.

[BigDick]

even when you used that canister round the stuart is still useful especially against PE because it is fast and has to fear not much

[Nanaki]

even when you used that canister round the stuart is still useful especially against PE because it is fast and has to fear not much

Except a Marder III and Panzershreks.

[Mysthalin]

and paks...

And fausts...

And anything that issues anything bigger than a spitball from it's boomstick.

[BigDick]

the talking was about PE when syou would read before posting.....

and a Marder alone (8pop) is no counter to a stuart....

and i said that they are still useful even without canister available...
i do not said that they totally pwn everything

it is light armor killing light vehicles and helping to support infantry

and @ topic yeah brits are totally underpowered only crappy overpriced units and abilities

[skyblazer]

At vet 0 I've been able to run a Commando squad up to 2 gren squads, pop smoke and wipe both units out without taking much damage. So for their price commando's are very good now just don't use the glider with them unless u feel like risking your vet. btw i have a vet 3 commando unit and im only a average player.

Lt and Cap's are fine considering what little buff's they give and you shouldn't be letting them get into the line of fire. I have only 1 lt in my army and he tends to last from start to finish since I keep him behind my lines and back him off if im not doing so well.

Recon tommies aren't front line troops, they're for spotting and supporting. I tend to use them with my 17pounders when I have 1 out on the field to make best use of its long range.

Commando MG and mortar fill needed role for brit's with providing mobile support weapons. It doesn't have to be as good as everyone elses it just has to be able to do its job well enough to be worth it and they are very much worth having.

Cromwell's are nice tanks not much for taking on other armour but good for picking off enemy troops with. It generally knocks out 2 guys per shot.

Stuart I don't personally use due to a lack of fuel and mp which is being used up by my other vehicles in my army however i have seen them do a lot of damage. I've seen victor use 3 stuart start all with canister shots just rape the other guy starting callin and force them to bring out AT weapons which than got destroyed by us turning to more AI weapons. They're not much but they can make your opponent change tactic's for the worse.

 

[Nanaki]

it is light armor killing light vehicles and helping to support infantry

The problem with this is that it is not just simply 'not effective', it is completely worthless. Most of its potshots against infantry, if they hit, may not even kill a single person. Most vehicles can withstand quite a few shots from a Stuart, and otherwise, the vehicle just has no offensive ability at all and dies very easily to Panzershrek shots and other AT.

and @ topic yeah brits are totally underpowered only crappy overpriced units and abilities

Some OP, some UP.

At vet 0 I've been able to run a Commando squad up to 2 gren squads, pop smoke and wipe both units out without taking much damage.

Give those gren squads LMG42s and you probably will not be saying that.

[MannfredvonRitter]

Brits aren't underpowered, they're currently overpowered. Almost everyone agrees on that one. The piats low cost and high effectiveness means that the British currently slaughter any vehicles. The piat has gone so far as not to make vehicles countered but to completely invalidate them.

Using a P4 against even two piat squads is suicide. As bad, if not worse than two double shreck squads which cost 480mu.

Their emplacements rape, the firefly is awesome. About the only thing you said which is correct is the recon section which has bad LOS and the snipe ability is too short range.

British are complete bullshite atm, clearly evidenced by the high win/loss ratios of the british players and the sudden 'love' of the British faction by many many people.

Commandos pretty much insta kill even assault infantry once at point blank range, in terms of damage dealing ability they have possibly the highest damage dealing ability in the game versus infantry, with a 'nerfed' version of fire up to boot.

[Mysthalin]

The stuart is indeed useless, only time it ever comes close to semi-combat effective is if it's in a blob of other stuarts, or if it's taking rear shots at something that's busy fighting a firefly/churchill/cromwell.

Only time I ever shot more than one guy with a cromwell was when the squad was building sandbags in red cover, and I came up from the other side of the sandbags...

[TheDeadlyShoe]

The Stuart does not really have any ability to counter light vehicles, though it can chase them off and fight them in stand up battle.  The 50% reduction in accuracy while moving makes it difficult to run anything down, especially given its reliance on mobility to dodge AT fire.

I do however still use 2 Stuarts for their raiding ability. They are also a good start unit for the same reason Pumas and StuHs are good start units. 

Stuarts also seem disproportionately effective against PE, since they can shoot up the halftracks and can defeat Marders if they catch them in appropriate terrain / away from support.

The Cromwell's probably fine at it's pop. It does not have the stand up power of the Sherman or PIV, but it has a lower cost and Flank Speed is incredibly useful at times.

(Devs take note. Both those vehicles need Moving Ability at vet. )

I've always argued the Firefly is overpopped.  You simply cannot have that much AT-only pop rusting away in the back line, especially since you need a CCT for it to actually function as an AT counter.

I've found Recon Sections extremely useful, especially for sniper extermination.  Lately, Axis players have taken note and will explicitly target Recons if they have snipers on the field. They lack firepower but they are an essential part of any British infantry effort.

The useless and even counterproductive nature of air drops is par for course in EIRR, and not limited to commandos.  Someone's apparently sworn a blood oath that Raid Assault will never come again.

[MannfredvonRitter]

You're complaining about a firefly in terms of effective AT and how it takes up too much pop, least British have effective AT for less than 12 pop combos . Firefly is a bargain in comparison. Penetrates a KT's front armour.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

14 pop is just too much to tie up for a single purpose glass cannon.  One of the reasons people cite for not taking heavy tanks is that the pop cost cripples their ability to support it enough for it to be effective, and they are too expensive to risk casually (like a medium tank). The Firefly has the same problem, except that it only has AT firepower. 

[Mysthalin]

firefly = Panther minus sexy factor.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

If it was close to the Panther it wouldn't have this problem.  The Panther has enough armor and firepower to fight infantry; it's not great at it, but it works.  The Firefly simply cannot sub as anti infantry in a pinch, not even to the extent that the m10 can.

[Nanaki]

Using a P4 against even two piat squads is suicide. As bad, if not worse than two double shreck squads which cost 480mu.

The main difference is that the P4 can kite PIAT Sappers. Remember, as long as you keep moving in between PIAT barrages and continually change direction, the PIATs will never hit you. Panzershreks by comparison -will- hit you no matter what if they score a 'hit' roll at maximum range.

By the way, you are just getting a small taste of what it is like to use armor with Allies. Between PAKs, cloaked Storms with Panzershreks, and superior Axis armor, it is amazing that Allied armor can do anything at all.

firefly = Panther minus sexy factor.

Minus the rediculous armor/health and minus the ability to snipe inf as well.

British are complete bullshite atm, clearly evidenced by the high win/loss ratios of the british players and the sudden 'love' of the British faction by many many people.

...and you forget all the people who also rolled Wehrmacht?

[Killer344]

14 pop is just too much to tie up for a single purpose glass cannon.  One of the reasons people cite for not taking heavy tanks is that the pop cost cripples their ability to support it enough for it to be effective, and they are too expensive to risk casually (like a medium tank). The Firefly has the same problem, except that it only has AT firepower. 

It has moderate AI capabilites with a cct, I´ve found its godly useful to snipe hmgs in the meantime..

[Malevolence]

Lieutenants and Captains: Their bonuses are nice, but they are kind of fragile (especially since you need to keep the Lieutenant close to the main force in order to -use- his bonuses in the first place) and other than the one-shot 100mun FOO that Lieutenants get, they do not really have any other use. An idea I have been throwing around with FOO is to instead give it to the Captain and make it a timed ability instead of use ability, as well as increasing the munition cost of it by 50.

Disagree on this one: a good thirty percent increase in damage and thirty percent increase in fire rate (can't remember the exact thing) is beyond worth the cost and danger of being on the frontline. LT is easy to vet to vet 1, and he heals himself at vet 1, so unless he gets focused for being way too close to the front, there's no reason he should be dead.

Unfortunately recharging FOO did not work in the original release due to an exploit, so it is now one use.

Casualty Clearing Station: Compared to the Triage, it sucks, badly. Being only able to heal every 4 minutes is vastly inferior to a constant-effect heal.

It's cheaper to match as well. In addition, also remember that British infantry at vet 1, officers at vet 1, and anything in sector with a captain will heal itself over time. Brits have very very good resilience.

PIATs: Overpowered vs Infantry, fine vs vehicles. Their anti-vehicular capabilities are fine, since they never hit if you keep your distance and keep moving (PIATs are incredibly easy to kite). However, the fact they act like riflenades to infantry is a bit of a problem that should be fixed. Still, please, do not nerf the anti-tank capabilities. Driving a tank/vehicle into the middle of a British infantry force should be suicide, much like driving a Cromwell into a Wehrmacht infantry force is suicide.

They don't gib infantry that much more often than panzerschreks or RRs, it's just the fact that there's usually a blob of them on the field at a time that exaggerates their anti-infantry capabilities. You will note that being in light cover halves damage and green cover quarters damage from PIAT hits, so if you're in cover you'll take like 2-4 direct hits, and sappers aren't THAT resilient to bullets.

British Tanks: Overall, I think they just... suck. The Tetrarch I have not used yet, but the Firefly and Cromwell seem to take far more pop than they are worth. Maybe it is because in retail I could afford to gang up 2 Fireflies and a command tank on a tiger, with the major popcap limitations, I can field 1 Firefly, 1 CT, and little else, so Tigers tend to make mincemeat of them. PAKs and Shreks also make mincemeat.

You can field two fireflies and a command tank if you want to, and that's only on the default fuel and 31 popcap. That leaves you around 300 fuel for other tanks (see: one cromwell, some lighter tanks, et c.) and 9 popcap for, say, a button squad and some piats if you need to deal with a german heavy tank. Admittedly, that is seriously overkill for a german heavy tank.

25 Pounders: I am not RCA, but I think they suck, badly. I once built one to try to counter a Stuka (I know it does not work in retail, but I wondered if it would work here). It ended up acting on its own and artyed some random location, giving away its position and causing it to be Stukaed to kingdom come. I never used it since. Oh yeah, and the range sucks on it too.

It shouldn't fire automatically, you told it to fire, and while the range does suck, it's a fairly cheap emplacement that is available to non doctrinal british. No other faction gets a nondoctrinal on-map howitzer, mobile or otherwise.

Brits aren't underpowered, they're currently overpowered. Almost everyone agrees on that one. The piats low cost and high effectiveness means that the British currently slaughter any vehicles. The piat has gone so far as not to make vehicles countered but to completely invalidate them.

Not for me, but your mileage may vary.

Using a P4 against even two piat squads is suicide. As bad, if not worse than two double shreck squads which cost 480mu.

Their emplacements rape, the firefly is awesome. About the only thing you said which is correct is the recon section which has bad LOS and the snipe ability is too short range.

Using a P4 against two dedicated anti tank squads is hard you say? Say it ain't so! If you tried using a p4 against two ranger squads or a sherman against two (single) schrek squads I'd say it would be pretty difficult, too! Sappers are like rangers with no anti-infantry ability besides the occasional piat snipe hit and an improved aim time.

British are complete bullshite atm, clearly evidenced by the high win/loss ratios of the british players and the sudden 'love' of the British faction by many many people.

Uh, Wehrmacht is still the most popular faction by a wide margin, and "win/loss ratios" rarely means much except that you pick the right teammates.

Commandos pretty much insta kill even assault infantry once at point blank range, in terms of damage dealing ability they have possibly the highest damage dealing ability in the game versus infantry, with a 'nerfed' version of fire up to boot.

...

I'm not even going to dignify this one. I'm sorry, but you have played CoH for HOW long? I don't mean to be condescending, but really, you should know how this works by now...