[US] The lovely Ranger discussion

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[Malevolence]

KCH have a slightly superior armor type to rangers - they literally cannot die to one hit from anything. Heroic armor type (also seen on British officers) results in things being unkillable first hit. Tank shot? 105mm? King Tiger near miss? Machinegun bullet? Grenade? Nothing will crit them to death on the first hit, they have to have 5% hp or less before dying (on a per man basis). This is what makes KCH so beast - they refuse to die for a certain amount of time, no matter what you hit them with, making them wonderfully tough spearheads or supplements. Rather costly cannon fodder, but pretty good at it. Hard to suppress, too.

Rangers on the other hand have elite infantry armor like Wehrmacht grenadiers get at vet 2 in retail. This makes them wonderfully tough against MOST weapons that do normal things like fire bullets. The problem is they're incredibly combustible - I know this because flame pios in retail can light up four rangers before the SMGs kill them, generally speaking. It's pretty brutal - Elite Infantry armor suffered from that problem too (I love facing panzer elite with my churchill croc before the armor type change )

Anyway, point is, KCH armor type is amazing, and Ranger armor type is amazing... but not cyborg terminator invincible armor like KCH have. They'll generally take a tiny bit less damage from regular bullets, but KCH can survive in critical situations like snipers, artillery, or tanks far better.

[EIRRMod]

That's another part of the problem, panzer, they make changes without saying anything. I guess that also answers Mgallun. EIRR buffed the zook out the ass, and even if Relic nerf it a bit, its still a lot better.

As for Mal...well, maybe I'm just an unlucky fucker. It's not like I've gotten to test it much since EiRR has been down for awhile.

Panzerjager knows what we change - he does quite a few changes himself

Hes meaning, 'We changed Zooks?' - Not that He or I am aware

[Unkn0wn]

I don't see how they are suddenly OP when they've been like this ever since EIRR was released.

[Baine]

They aren't suddenly OP, they always have been. It just came to my mind again, when i saw a guy, with a damn bad gameplay but Vet Rangers cut through everything. No need for micro or anything.

Vet makes those unkillable. And yes, KCH may have better armor but seriously they got less firepower than rangers and tend to die earlier than rangers, both cost nearly the same.

And I'm not complaining about bazookas, i never mentioned those, it's the thompsons that make them become the ToV Heroes from the campaign.

[Unkn0wn]

It seems like your issue is the ranger veterancy then, not the ranger unit it self.

[Baine]

I'd say a little something from both of it. Recieved Accuracy is a pain in the ass against Rangers.

[Schultz]

I'd say a little something from both of it. Recieved Accuracy is a pain in the ass against Rangers.

Also making rangers having no zooks kinda adds up to the problem at least munition wise. Smg rangers are like the easiest unit to vet. A child can do it. And at vet 3 they rock your sox.
How many vet 3 kch have you seen ? You have to see things in proportion to what they fight. Kch's role has been diminished, since the abundance of long range weapons that will kill them. Brens, rifle nades, bars, piats. Go charge into them. Seriously the comparison is ridiculous.

[DemonicTruism]

Actually, KCH vet less because they're just less versatile. Fire up increases the usefulness of AB and Rangers more than it first seems. It lets you outmaneuvre other forces so as to make best use of assault weapons, ignore machineguns and chase down fleeing vehicles.

There's also the whole fact that a KCH squad is 3 men, while a ranger squad is 6. Sure you can't kill them in one hit, but that's a lot less firepower.

[EIRRMod]

Well I guess there was a reason that Rangers were made to always come with zooks in old EIR.

Might have to have a look at them at some point for 006.

[CafeMilani]

every fucking noob (and we have mainly noobs playing coh) cant vet them up, even tym and mgallun

rangers and ABs got this slight nerf from the patch, but wheres the MG42 change? or some other changes?.

[Warlight]

every fucking noob (and we have mainly noobs playing coh) cant vet them up, even tym and mgallun

rangers and ABs got this slight nerf from the patch, but wheres the MG42 change? or some other changes?.

Huh? 

[Mgallun74]

every fucking noob (and we have mainly noobs playing coh) cant vet them up, even tym and mgallun

rangers and ABs got this slight nerf from the patch, but wheres the MG42 change? or some other changes?.

Huh? 

tym or I must have killed some of his stuff with rangers or something. lol.  couldnt tell ya becuase he plays with so many smurf names.

[Warlight]

Not to get too off topic, he does play right?  I just played Brad the other day for the first time, and wouldn't have noticed it if he hadn't been on vent.

[Mgallun74]

Not to get too off topic, he does play right?  I just played Brad the other day for the first time, and wouldn't have noticed it if he hadn't been on vent.

ya Aloha plays, but he always has a smurf name, as i am sure if he used aloha nobody would play with him since 99% of this community doesnt care for him.. who knows.

[Baine]

If anyone wants to have alook:
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=9041.msg157281;topicseen#new

Minute 30.

[Killer344]

Well I guess there was a reason that Rangers were made to always come with zooks in old EIR.

Might have to have a look at them at some point for 006.

nah, the zooks in the old EIRR were what made them barely cost effective.... if you want to make the smgs more expensive (when they don´t have zooks) that´s ok..... like 160mu.

[Unkn0wn]

Non-bazooka rangers were problematic back in the days because at that time Europe in Ruins no longer had an availability mechanism in place and the infantry doctrine offered a whole tree that specifically 'buffed' rangers and/or made them (and their upgrades) cheaper.

People spammed them like mad, it was incredibly effective thus they were given bazookas again from start.

[Mgallun74]

ya, its not like they are pure spamable now for free.. you get 4 of them for free and if you want Thompsons it costs 560mun.. so it aint cheap.. imho, in my noobness unthompson rangers are a waste, but thats just me, i have seen other better players use them well with just zooks or grenandes.. but i cant seem to make em work that way. 

Currently i have 4 with Thompsons and Zooks.. you do the math, ya they do a good job, but iam paying for it too.

[Pak75mm]

another reason why i vet hunt. out of all units in game the last thing you wanna see is a vet 3 ranger blob.

[Scyn]

Solution to this problem - Vet 3 Dual LMG42 Grens - They friggin tear rangers up.