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Author Topic: I think stormtroopers need a nerf  (Read 24005 times)
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Bubz Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 726



« Reply #60 on: May 20, 2009, 08:33:11 am »

Instead of making problems, try to come up with some solutions.
so
I don't know what, but something should be done about these units, like smokaz and akranadas said, they have pretty good ideas.
this
What if Stormtrooper cloak was a timed ability, say.... 30 seconds with a 90 second recharge
this
I am inclined to agree, but I dont know if outright nerfing the unit would be correct. Reinstating their vcoh weakness (supression resistance) however would go a long way into making them harder to use. Right now any noob can use storms because they just cloak and run around the corner without being supressed. Just look at the wehr unit leaderboards, it looks like this:

Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper
...
are good ideas.
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Akranadas Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 6906


« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2009, 08:36:46 am »

How about we have a actual discussion without both sides of the fence coming in here and call everyone fanboys because they dislike something.

I'll have to do a list up of extremists who won't be allow in some balance discussions.
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#Freek Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 121


« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2009, 08:38:56 am »

Heh, I though I made a pretty decent post outlining a few 'ideas' and 'solutions'... I don't appreciate having the f-bomb dropped willy nilly in 'my' forum posts...
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BigDick
Guest
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2009, 08:39:37 am »

@dnicee i never said nerf something the allies have except calliope/ and maybe bren of tommies
or taking out this offmap "spam" (of all factions)
i'm just sick about reading all that whining about stormtroopers pak38 assault nades tiger aces, hm42, nebelwerfer, mortar...

every thread started "nerf this nerf that" i could puke
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 08:41:10 am by BigDick » Logged
Baine Offline
Steven Spielberg
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Posts: 3713


« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2009, 09:12:34 am »

I think this replay http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=9539.msg163913#new
from Nijo shows some good anti Stormie tactics. Or well, tactics, just a way to play a game with stormies.


Especially at minute 20 and on you can see they patrol the area (lol at the sherman in the middle) with effect.
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Killer344 Offline
The Inquisitor
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Posts: 6904



« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2009, 09:23:14 am »

I'll have to do a list up of extremists who won't be allow in some balance discussions.

oh god, please...

That might give me some motives to post in this sub-forum again..
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If I get shot and it's a gay medic fixing me up, he's not gonna be fondling my balls while he does it. You can't patch a chest wound and suck a cock at the same time.
31stPzGren Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 455


« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2009, 10:28:27 am »

good anti Stormie tactics. Or well, tactics, just a way to play a game with stormies.

Especially at minute 20 and on you can see they patrol the area (lol at the sherman in the middle) with effect.

And give Infantry Doctrines, Rifles the ability to build barbed wire, sandbag and tanktraps again, which makes people actually want to use rifleman more and gives the faction most vulnerable to stormtroopers an actual capability, albeit in the form of passive defence.

For AB they have AB, Recon run, Strafe, Bombing. Tank they have Pershing/Calliope.

Inf Doctrine needs some love.... and more availability of rifles as well as being marginally cheaper... like 10 MP Cheesy
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Malevolence Offline
Donator
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Posts: 1871



« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2009, 10:30:15 am »

I hope you mean 10 MP cheaper and not 10 MP riflemen  Cheesy
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Akranadas' Greatest Hits, Volume 1:

Quote from: Akranadas
Vet has nothing to do with unit preformance.

Quote from: Akranadas
We are serious about enforcing this, and I am sure you all want to be able to have your balance thought considered by the development team with some biased, sensationalist coming into your thread and ruining it.
Mgallun74 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1478


« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2009, 11:50:08 am »

Only beef i have with the cloaking units is when they do it in uncovered areas... either sitting a pak in the middle of a road cloaked.. or, stormies seeing a callie or howi and walk across a open field to sneak attack it even thou the field is covered by hmg, motar etc...  meaning, if they where regular Grens they wouldnt get their..

i know some people here are great microers, iam not, its hard enough for me to micro my damn units on the front line to have to micro shit in the back to patrol for stuff walking cloaked in open areas...

no side bias really, not saying take it away.. just make it less lame
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BigDick
Guest
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2009, 12:28:07 pm »

or, stormies seeing a callie or howi and walk across a open field to sneak attack it even thou the field is covered by hmg, motar etc...  meaning, if they where regular Grens they wouldnt get their..
...
no side bias really, not saying take it away.. just make it less lame

and others would say it is lame to set up a calliope/howi behind doomfortress
and doing nothing than artillery

and others say (insider) it is lame to flank with your panther comming from behind for tgheir priest behind doomfortress
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 12:30:51 pm by BigDick » Logged
31stPzGren Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 455


« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2009, 12:34:07 pm »

and others say (insider) it is lame to flank with your panther comming from behind for tgheir priest behind doomfortress

Thats why RTC was one of the best maps... for building the great wall of china.
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31stPzGren Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 455


« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2009, 12:52:08 pm »

i used to have 4 stormies in old Eir and even with 50+ RBs in mun you could still barly keep a well eqipt army AND THIS WAS IN OLD EIR. storms are extrwamly expensive and thus are well balanced for there coast. if you even tuach storms they will need A MASSIVe price reduction or they will never be USED EVER.

also once a storm squad ambushes a unit it will almost always be forced iff map due to its actions behind enemy lines. thus its usualy a 1 use weapon but one that is imo very well balanced.

Since I'm bored, I'll write something on storms.

I like to comment on this. In OLD eir where storms used to cost 330MP, I am the foremost pioneer of a pure stormtrooper army with stug/stuh. Everyone else insisted storms should cost 300MP to be viable. I didn't think so, in fact I won plenty of games with it.

I pumped only Munis and I outfitted my stormtroopers selectively with alternating bundled nades/stg44s. I even made a pure stealth defensive army for ambushing allied armour and infantry with paks + storms.

The problems caused by stormtroopers now, is most likely game design in my opinion. Feel free to disagree with it, I don't care.

- Availability limits the amount of jeeps a person can have to detect. Jeeps become a precious commodity. A smart player will use 1 jeep for scouting and keep 3 jeeps to hunt that elusive sniper. Any player that doesn't do so will pay for it dearly. Counter sniping is possible but its a game of luck. I prefer not giving my opponent any chance.
- Lack of ability to barb wire/sandbags/tanktrap with rifles. This was one of the strong points of infantry doctrines which improved their ability to hold the front... as well as barbed wires acting like mini spottered revealing cloaked units. The axis infantry can do so, the allies can't. Disadvantage anyone?
- Availability of Rifleman & Cost. With the change of stormtroopers to 300MP and lacking all the miscellaneous funky stuff that doctrines does for you, I dare say stormtroopers has became a little bit more economically priced than before. Rifles can no longer be cannon fodder and patrol for cloaked units let alone set up wire, the most important defence against infantry, weapon support teams and bikes. 200MP is good, I still love my 137MP rifles and the 50 rifles companies.

There are other issues indirectly affecting the gameplay... such as the fire up nerf which makes stormtroopers more powerful than rangers/airborne.

Previously, the distinguishing factor between allies & axis elite infantry, was the ability to avoid damage through cloak and the ability to negate suppression etc. Fire up was without negative consequence. Now it has a "slow" plus it has a super long cool down. This helps to contribute to the impression that storms are better overall, though arguable its just people actually using storms properly. Ironically, those people are mostly 'new' players to the community with 'new' ideas.

Precision Strike - One shot any defence, storms come in. Don't get me wrong, I think this is a fantastic ability that is a good tie breaker and encourages aggressive pushes. However, the state of balance in unit cost, composition and capabilities makes it seem awful.

And an additional rant on why allies is boring;

- Gone are the days of riflespam
- Gone are the days of mechanised armies
- Gone are the days of pure airborne armies (though raid assault can go drown itself in a stupid well)

These were the distinguishing marks of 'special' allies companies. There were even howitzer centric armies (though it was more fun than effective). The rest were usually balanced companies.

Here is my long rant, have fun shooting it down.
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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2009, 01:22:30 pm »

And an additional rant on why allies is boring;

- Gone are the days of riflespam
- Gone are the days of mechanised armies
- Gone are the days of pure airborne armies (though raid assault can go drown itself in a stupid well)

These were the distinguishing marks of 'special' allies companies. There were even howitzer centric armies (though it was more fun than effective). The rest were usually balanced companies.

Here is my long rant, have fun shooting it down.

Thats the important part of the allied problem, combined with the lack of ability to build any defenses.

Why not just make ALL infantry able to build wire and sandbags?
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Malevolence Offline
Donator
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Posts: 1871



« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2009, 01:40:47 pm »

Quote
These were the distinguishing marks of 'special' allies companies. There were even howitzer centric armies (though it was more fun than effective). The rest were usually balanced companies.

My eight howitzer company was the shit and everyone knows it. Especially on that game at Scheldt.
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Unkn0wn Offline
No longer retired
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Posts: 18379


« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2009, 02:12:01 pm »

Quote
Especially on that game at Scheldt.
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Malevolence Offline
Donator
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Posts: 1871



« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2009, 02:15:41 pm »

It was the last day of EiR and Morka wanted to play, who was I to say no? I saddled up, grabbed the two nearest noobs I could find, and we hit that scheldt like pros.
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Lt_Apollo Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 380


« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2009, 02:18:44 pm »

i miss old EiR.... rifle spam was so fun to kill....
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Killer344 Offline
The Inquisitor
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Posts: 6904



« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2009, 03:04:26 pm »

I am the foremost pioneer of a pure stormtrooper army with stug/stuh. Everyone else insisted storms should cost 300MP to be viable. I didn't think so, in fact I won plenty of games with it.

Lmao, AmPm´s army of cloaked fags that could also run were by far.... the lamest shit ever seen lol.
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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2009, 04:02:01 pm »

23 vet 3 stormies, weapon surplus (50% reduction in MP44 cost at the time), PAKs and Dual Tigers + 2 repair bunkers was epic win =)
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