stop lmg spaming pls

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[Latios418]

1. LMGs ARE STATIONARY WEAPONS THIS MEANS THEY A VERY DIFICUALT TO USE AGRESIVLY.

Considering the huge FotM penalty that comes with weapons able to, it's not a big difference.

2. ALLYS HAVE MORE TROOPS PER SQUAD LETTING YOU ALWAYS OUTNUMBER THE ENEMY

But each of those troops is less effective. In addition to each individual man being weaker, you come to the fact that higher number in a squad is a _disadvantage_.
1. Fragmenting power
Take a vcoh 6 man rifle squad and 3 man Pzgren for an example. The pzgren's firepower is at 100%, 66%, 33%, then dead but the decreases happen less often. Rifles are at 83%, 66%, 50%, 33%, 17%, and 0%, but they happen twice as often as pgs. This results in firepower being lost quickly.
2. Vulnerability to AoE
Pretty self-explanatory. Area of effect attacks are likely to do more damage if they hit more targets.
3. Difficulty with cover
Not a big problem, but rifles will have a harder time finding green cover for the full squad than, say, Pgrens.

3. BARS ARE CHEEP EASY SUPRESION STOP SPAMING RANGERS AND UPGRADE YOUR RIFLES AND YOU WONT HAVE A PROBLEM.

Suppression =/= killing

4. ALLYED ARTY CAN DESTROY ANY AXIS BLOB AND SEEING AS ALLYED ARTILLERY IS AWAYS PRESENT YOU COULD EASLY HURT A AXIS BLOB.

Because axis don't have artillery. Oh wait, precision artillery, 2 non-doctrinal arty units for wehr, etc.

CONCLUSION
LEARN TO SPELL AND MAKE GOOD ARGUMENTS, TURN YOUR FUCKING CAPS LOCK OFF, AND SHUT THE FUCK UP UNTIL THEN.

[gamesguy2]

the first part was an respond to ga..sguy where he said allies have no blob control

Learn to read, I said allies have no quick and easy infantry based blob control.

Assault and the goliath rapes allied blobs, there are no allied equivelent to them.

[BigDick]

the first part was an respond to ga..sguy where he said allies have no blob control

Learn to read, I said allies have no quick and easy infantry based blob control.

Assault and the goliath rapes allied blobs, there are no allied equivelent to them.

what do you want to tell me?

there is no axis equivalent of a moving 360° supression infantry or no equivalent of a panzerIV firering hundreds of rockets of doom
or no infantry based function like "hey i got supressed lets press the i win i escape button"

[Lt_Apollo]

Supresion is by far more powerfull than killing power thats what makes the HMG 42 so strong, the allys seem to not realise. rangers may kill BUT brens supresion is by far more coast effective as in a infentry fight an supessed axis squad IS DEAD. BARs are by far superior to LMGS in that manner plus LMGS as i stated befor are stationary! if you can force the lmg to move its easyer to kill also supresing them will win you the fight as they cant beat you if they cant fire. BARs imo are very powerfull and only an idiot would not use there uniqe ability to supress any unit at medium range.

LMGs while powerfull can not compaire to bars if used right. also Axis arty is in no way compairable to the SUPERIOR allyed artillery witch is by far superior in every way.

IMO both axis and allyed muns should be decreased to around 1000- 1250 mun to help stop ranger spam and any LMG spam.

[gamesguy2]

what do you want to tell me?

there is no axis equivalent of a moving 360° supression infantry or no equivalent of a panzerIV firering hundreds of rockets of doom
or no infantry based function like "hey i got supressed lets press the i win i escape button"

Dual LMG squads suppress well.

No but wehr gets nebels, were are non-doctrinal and I'd take a nebel over a cally given the cost difference tbh.

Actually axis does.  Its called assault.  Even better, its not an escape button but rather an "hey lets charge and throw 20 grenades" button.

[gamesguy2]

LMGs while powerfull can not compaire to bars if used right. also Axis arty is in no way compairable to the SUPERIOR allyed artillery witch is by far superior in every way.

IMO both axis and allyed muns should be decreased to around 1000- 1250 mun to help stop ranger spam and any LMG spam.

So where is the replay of you using rape bars?  Oh wait, you dont play anything except axis.

Axis artillery is superior to allied artillery.

Hummel> Priest
Henschel= most OP offmap in the game
V1/firestorm/rocket arty ~=105/bomb/strafe

105 howitzer/25 pounder = offmap bait/useless

Axis mortar> allied mortar

All wehr has nebels, only armor has calliopes.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Learn to read, I said allies have no quick and easy infantry based blob control.

Have a BAR squad insta-suppress, then come in with another unit to kill the now-defenseless Axis troops. Really not that hard.
LMGs, even dual LMGs, don't suppress as fast, don't do as much damage, are more expensive, and easier to take out.
Of course, this isn't even a real issue as no reasonable Axis commander will blob what few troops he does have.

Assault and the goliath rapes allied blobs, there are no allied equivelent to them.

Sticky and Button have no real Axis equivalent. And?

[Latios418]

Bars suppress one squad at a time, taking over 5 seconds to do so if they're in the open. Your 'blob control' will take 10 seconds to suppress two squads in the open, nevermind in cover. Assault Nades will go off about 3-4 seconds after you click them, instantly kill several people, and stun the rest so they can't even retreat.

[Scyn]

LMGs, even dual LMGs, don't suppress as fast, don't do as much damage, are more expensive, and easier to take out.
Of course, this isn't even a real issue as no reasonable Axis commander will blob what few troops he does have.

Lol what? Dual LMGs have a .012 Suppression while a BAR has .0075. The BAR has a x4 modifier on Suppressive Fire so you're looking at .03 if that ability is available. However.. While Suppressive fire is active.. BARs also do 70% less damage(2.1). Suppressive fire lasts 15 seconds.
LMGs while they might do less damage have twice the rate of fire, twice the burst duration. LMGs put out a massive amount of damage.

[Illegal_Carrot]

The BAR has a x4 modifier on Suppressive Fire so you're looking at .03

Unless it was changed for EiR (in which case I can't find it documented anywhere), Suppression Fire has a 10x modifier:
http://coh-stats.com/Ability:Suppression_Fire

However.. While Suppressive fire is active.. BARs also do 70% less damage(2.1). Suppressive fire lasts 15 seconds.

That's why you come in with another unit to actually kill the enemy. Suppression Fire is 15 seconds, plus the time it takes for the enemy to recover, which is more than enough to come in and kill them/force a retreat.

LMGs while they might do less damage have twice the rate of fire, twice the burst duration. LMGs put out a massive amount of damage.

Taking all things into account, one BAR out-damages one LMG. Obviously, then, two BARs out-damage two LMGs.

[gamesguy2]

Taking all things into account, one BAR out-damages one LMG. Obviously, then, two BARs out-damage two LMGs.

I'm sorry what?  A grenadier squad with a single LMG outdps a riflesquad with two bars.

[Scyn]

You realize you're talking single shots.. I'm talking DPS. 7 dmg at a rate of fire of 7, bursting @ 1.25 is significantly less damage than 5 dmg at a rate of fire of 15 with a burst of 2. An Lmg will cut down a rifleman much quicker than a BAR will cut down a grenadier, not to mention the HP of rifleman is 55 as opposed to 80 that a grenadier has. Riflemen lose their effective DPS much faster than Grenadiers do.

Also my mistake, it is accuracy and not damage modifier, I was reading the wrong thing. The effective accuracy while using suppressive fire is 22.5% chance to hit vs grens. And yes.. it is a modifier of x4 and not x10. x10 makes it deal more suppression than any other unit in the game, which is just not true.

[Lt_Apollo]

LMGs while powerfull can not compaire to bars if used right. also Axis arty is in no way compairable to the SUPERIOR allyed artillery witch is by far superior in every way.

IMO both axis and allyed muns should be decreased to around 1000- 1250 mun to help stop ranger spam and any LMG spam.

So where is the replay of you using rape bars?  Oh wait, you dont play anything except axis.

Axis artillery is superior to allied artillery.

Hummel> Priest
Henschel= most OP offmap in the game
V1/firestorm/rocket arty ~=105/bomb/strafe

105 howitzer/25 pounder = offmap bait/useless

Axis mortar> allied mortar

All wehr has nebels, only armor has calliopes.

i play PE not wher i say this as a player not ever using LMGs. Though axis have alot of non doc arty they dont posses the sheer firepower the howie or callie has these 2 docs are the most played and allied heavy arty is usualy always present.

It is a known fact allyed arty beats axis light arty in every single way. the 2 are not comparable.

Bars IMO are way more powerfull against a axis player as they can supress ANY single unit witch as i said befor basicly kills them, as a PE player it is extreamly deadly. BARS are effective means of nutralising any axis squad.

LMGS Imo are not as versitile and also slow the carring unit down thus why having a 1 shrek 1 LMG squad is highly avoided by more experanced player, rifle bars on the otherhand act like a normal rifle in the sense they dontaffect squad movment or pathing.

[gamesguy2]

i play PE not wher i say this as a player not ever using LMGs. Though axis have alot of non doc arty they dont posses the sheer firepower the howie or callie has these 2 docs are the most played and allied heavy arty is usualy always present.

It is a known fact allyed arty beats axis light arty in every single way. the 2 are not comparable.

Appeal to belief.  You didn't support your argument, you just said "its a known fact".  Well its not a known fact to me, explain to me how exactly allied arty is better than axis arty.

Calliope is the only allied arty that is unique, which is countered by the fact that all of wehr has access to nebels where as only armor gets calliopes.

Bars IMO are way more powerfull against a axis player as they can supress ANY single unit witch as i said befor basicly kills them, as a PE player it is extreamly deadly. BARS are effective means of nutralising any axis squad.

LMGS Imo are not as versitile and also slow the carring unit down thus why having a 1 shrek 1 LMG squad is highly avoided by more experanced player, rifle bars on the otherhand act like a normal rifle in the sense they dontaffect squad movment or pathing.

Bar rifles don't act anything like normal rifle squads.  Normal rifles are worthless and only used for recrewing.   Bar rifles can actually fight.   But after their one suppressive fire is gone, they are inferior to a LMG gren in every way.

[Illegal_Carrot]

You realize you're talking single shots...

I was using the DPS calculator from coh-stats, http://www.coh-stats.com/Zaxis/mgs/ , which shows a single BAR out damaging a single LMG (except at close range).
My apologies if it's incorrect.

[gamesguy2]

You realize you're talking single shots.. I'm talking DPS. 7 dmg at a rate of fire of 7, bursting @ 1.25 is significantly less damage than 5 dmg at a rate of fire of 15 with a burst of 2. An Lmg will cut down a rifleman much quicker than a BAR will cut down a grenadier, not to mention the HP of rifleman is 55 as opposed to 80 that a grenadier has. Riflemen lose their effective DPS much faster than Grenadiers do.

Also my mistake, it is accuracy and not damage modifier, I was reading the wrong thing. The effective accuracy while using suppressive fire is 22.5% chance to hit vs grens. And yes.. it is a modifier of x4 and not x10. x10 makes it deal more suppression than any other unit in the game, which is just not true.

Accuracy is not taken into account when calculating suppression, only shots fired/suppression per shot.

Bars with suppressive fire has roughly the same suppression as an 30 cal.  Dual LMG has roughly the same suppression as a quad.   Dual LMGs do about 60% the suppression of a quad at long range, the same at medium and twice the suppression of a quad at short range.

More importantly, LMGs are actually MGs.  They have a nearby suppression radius of 12 and a nearby suppression multiplier of .75.  In otherwords, they can suppress a blob just like a normal MG.   Where as bars only have a nearby search radius of 2 and multiplier of .25, meaning they can only suppress one squad at a time.

[gamesguy2]

You realize you're talking single shots...

I was using the DPS calculator from coh-stats, http://www.coh-stats.com/Zaxis/mgs/ , which shows a single BAR out damaging a single LMG (except at close range).
My apologies if it's incorrect.

It shows no such thing.   A grenadier squad with one LMG does
8.3/16.3/33.1 dps at long/medium/short range against the infantry armor type(lmgs and bars have a .75 dmg modifier vs infantry).

A rifle squad with two bars does 6.1/17.3/39.688 dps at long/medium/short range against infantry armor.

Assuming the fight starts at long range, the grenadier squad with one LMG will always win.  Even if they are teleported right next to each other magically, the grenadier squad will win as it has the suppression of a quad at short range and will quickly suppress the rifles.   In addition, the grenadier squad loses firepower more slowly than the rifles, each man having 80 hp instead of 55.   

With no suppressive fire, a bar rifle squad will almost always lose to a grenadier squad with one LMG.

[Illegal_Carrot]

It shows no such thing.   A grenadier squad with one LMG does
8.3/16.3/33.1 dps at long/medium/short range against the infantry armor type(lmgs and bars have a .75 dmg modifier vs infantry).

I don't know where you're getting your MLG's DPS from, click the LMG42 button and you get 21/6/2 S/M/L, whereas BARs get 18/7/3.
Both the BAR and the LMG have 1.0 accuracy against Infantry, and .75 damage. The only difference between the two is that LMGs have a .75 accuracy modifier against moving Infantry, while BARs still have 1.0.

[AmPM]

Now do the DPS of an LMG gren squad on the move, vs a BAR squad on the move.

[Scyn]

Accuracy is not taken into account when calculating suppression, only shots fired/suppression per shot.

I was merely trying to further demonstrate the DPS of BARs is significantly less. Obviously if the grens don't get suppressed and BARs have Suppressive fire enabled.. their effective DPS is moot.