British Weakness

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[RikiRude]

I'm really starting to notice the holes in the british army. Lets talk non-doctrinal here.

Anti-garrison Units:

Mortars, personally I LOVE the british mortar, it wrecks units out in the open, but it does pretty much no damage to units in buildings, in fact, there really isn't a point to using it on units in the buildings.

Riflenades, these really REALLY seem to be hit and miss. Even with an LT near, or even when the nades hit, they don't seem to kill anything. Plus the rifles that fire the nades only fire nades, so it's got the rifle damage of a 3 man tommy squad. Am I having bad luck with these? I stopped fielding them because they just don't seem to get the job done.

Lack of flames, lack of sniper. Two ways the other armies take care of units in buildings. So since british have a weakness here, where do they make up for it?


Recon.

We get recon squads, these guys are pretty good, I like them, but we only get 2, which sucks. Also they are counter productive in their job duty. Jeeps can detect a storm squad then get out of there and let other units take care of the storms. But they are better at finding a pak because they cant  get 2 shotted.... but they can't snipe at the pak for some reason which really sucks. I suggest a munition cost to either increase their sniping range, or to reduce the cool down on the marks man ability. OR give them a second marksman ability, each with its own cool down.

I'll add more later, games starting =P

[Unkn0wn]

Riflenades, these really REALLY seem to be hit and miss. Even with an LT near, or even when the nades hit, they don't seem to kill anything. Plus the rifles that fire the nades only fire nades, so it's got the rifle damage of a 3 man tommy squad. Am I having bad luck with these? I stopped fielding them because they just don't seem to get the job done.

Don't forget to use smoke, it's superb.
I've had some mixed successes with riflenades, but you're correct that it's pretty tough to actually get kills with them.
(Only really happens when you're playing noobs or you are targetting low health squads)

We get recon squads, these guys are pretty good, I like them, but we only get 2, which sucks. Also they are counter productive in their job duty. Jeeps can detect a storm squad then get out of there and let other units take care of the storms. But they are better at finding a pak because they cant  get 2 shotted.... but they can't snipe at the pak for some reason which really sucks. I suggest a munition cost to either increase their sniping range, or to reduce the cool down on the marks man ability. OR give them a second marksman ability, each with its own cool down.

We intend on increasing their snipe range.

I've played brits extensively myself, I think they just don't fit my playstyle as I rack up at least 2x the amount of infantry kills on my American account. That being said, I don't generally field large LT blobs which it seems is a must. There's other people out there who absolutely own with Brits so my final conclusion is that despite all changes they remain a 'tougher' faction to play.

[simpson22]

Yes i like using recons but the cooldown just takes tooooo long.
I personally love rifle nades if you get lucky hits on moving squads theyre pretty good but i think theyre best used with mgs, so i always deploy my riflenades with a HMG. A pinned squad is easy to kill with riflenades, iv also had luck with them clearing buildings pretty fast.

[Malevolence]

Riflenades are like PIATS - you NEED a lieutenant to get anything done or it's a waste of space if you aren't using them for smoke.

[Tymathee]

Rifle nades are over priced for their accuracy. I think you should lower the price because they just don't do anything. I might buy them at 60 but at 90, hell no.

[Malevolence]

I lol'd at riflenades being more than bren when this was released.

Although I will admit a riflenade hoard with one or two LTs is basically hardcounter to enemy infantry of any type.

[Latios418]

@unknown

I find riflenade smoke really subpar. From my experience that just daddle around for 10 seconds before firing the fucking smoke nade, and during that time they aren't firing at the enemy. Then the smoke lasts another 10 seconds and covers a really small area forcing you to huddle together to benefit from it.

I just use 12x bren gun now

EDIT: And from my experience the Commonwealth's biggest weakness is equipped infantry. Commandos suck for their price and are doctrine-specific. Bren Guns simply don't do enough damage (even with lt), especially to elite infantry. A gren with 2x lmg is ridiculously effective against brit infantry; ridiculous enough to take on 2x bren squad with lt afaik. Falls just rape everything brits have. Really hardly. You MUST rely on tanks to kill falls price-effectively. KCH actually aren't that kickass against brits, but they do hurt a lot. Storms with mp44 aren't pretty.

However, where they lack in AI they excel at AT. Fireflies w/ cct are epic win and if you use them right you can keep them alive the entire game without trouble. Brens create a no-go field around themselves. PIATs are great, the only thing they need to imrpove is penetration. They penetrate decently, but it just pisses me off to see 2-3 shots bouncing off a Stug or PzIV(ist). Make either pen or accuracy bad, not both when they're fucking 50 muni each.

[Unkn0wn]

I find riflenade smoke really subpar. From my experience that just daddle around for 10 seconds before firing the fucking smoke nade, and during that time they aren't firing at the enemy. Then the smoke lasts another 10 seconds and covers a really small area forcing you to huddle together to benefit from it.

Well your riflenaders shouldn't be the frontline men, they should be throwing the smoke cover on your infantry being assaulted. I've seen entire squads stand up to mp44/mp40 blobs thanks to smoke.

Not to mention it's basically a free 'cancel suppression' ability.

And yes, I would agree that compared to Americans, British lack anti-infantry killing power.

[spinn72]

Rifle Grenades are good in blobs and should be used like PIATs.  I don't like using them because they just wont guarentee a kill, but if 2 grenades hit they'll do a tonne of damage to the enemy squad.  The only effective way you could use them was behind brens to finish off the infantry.

Really the best thing keeping me in for british is my Mortar Commandos.  They're basically an axis mortar and do all that tough work for me.  With the building bug right now i'm okay with MGs in buildings.

The anti-infantry power of brens is not to be underestimated.  I'd say they are the 2nd best weapon in the game (behind the LMG) when used properly.  If you are defending with a bren squad behind any cover you can pretty much be cetrain it will wipe out most of what is in the way.

Recon squads = Jeeps with the ability to snipe close range.

The main way to beat brits i think is with range, especially if they don't have many AT guns on.  stay out of the range of button and you'll be fine .

[Unkn0wn]

They're basically an axis mortar

Actually, they're basically an allied mortar as they have almost identical stats .

[Killer344]

They´re a "bit" better and can gtfo with smoke :p.

[Mukip]

The Commando Mortar is nice, in fact having a CM illustrates how lacking the Brits are without one because they typically lack artillery unless you load up on offmaps.  I think the removal of the 25 pounder was a mistake, I thought it evened things out a bit for the Brits back when it was implemented for all doctrines.

[Latios418]

Actually, they're basically an allied mortar as they have almost identical stats

No wonder they suck so much!

[gamesguy2]

They're basically an axis mortar

Actually, they're basically an allied mortar as they have almost identical stats .

Eh?  Riflenade does 20-35 damage so average 27.5 damage, no modifiers vs infantry.

Mortar does 20 damage with 2x modifier vs infantry, so 40 damage.

Not to mention mortar has much bigger aoe and better modifiers vs other infantry types.

[Smokaz]

Whoever thought giving british cloakable 57mms was a good idea.. fail is yu

Wehrmacht can have a cloaked at gun because they have no short-medium-long range movement disablers to use against tanks.

Cloaked 6p backing up a "seemingly" defenseless blob of tommies.. ack

[Latios418]

It is worth noting that it's hard to willingly cloak it. You can only have it fully cloaked in cover if one guy is dead - if you have three, for some reason the third guy will never cloak even if he's in the same crater of cover as the other two guys.

[EliteGren]

Even if the 3rd guy shows up, the gun is cloaked and so is the crew, the enemy wont see it.

[Latios418]

Yeah, just saying it's still somewhat possible to notice it if you're paying very close attention, and lead with infantry.

It should be removed though, CW AT is good as can be, it doesn't make much sense in having it and it won't leave the brits hurting when it's nerfed.

[Nevyen]

Ive played brits allot,  don't really see an issue with them but it probably fits my play style.  I agree they have holes but for the most part i have found ways to deal with them and be successful as well.

Suffice to say im play wher now to get sense and see what i can do to them on the flipside.

Im waiting till we release doctrines before making any further judgments on them at this point.

[Mysthalin]

I once charged a bren squad with a lieutenant against a kCH squad that was in heavy cover. I killed the KCH losing 2 men.
Then I lololololed, sold every single rifle nade I had and went brens only.