[US]T17

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[Mysthalin]

The t17 is a rather useful unit. It can stun tanks every once in a while(to a maximum of 2) for 5-6 seconds for a munitions cost, and it can kill infantry with it's rapid fire cannon. It can also snipe down halftracks alright, but there's one, major issue with it.
It dies fast, and it dies horribly.

175 HP, and a rather impresive price of 350 MP and 90 FU. It uses greyhound armor, so it hardly dodges everything that's shot at it. For comparison, a sherman costs 395 MP, 250 FU, yet is much more survivable. A greyhound costs 290 MP, 50 FU.

The manpower cost is fine - it pretty much makes up for it's rather amazing gun. The stun ability is also useful, but it lasts for only a short while and costs a seperate munition cost. For something that is only 175 HP, the fuel cost is completely off key. It has 25 more HP than a stock M8, which is roughly 16 percent better, yet it costs allmost 90 percent more in fuel.

Fuel has always been the resource that hallmarks the vehicle's survivability.
Calliope costs a lot of fuel, because it's survivable.
The Panther, Pershing, Tiger, King Tiger - all of those cost a lot of fuel and comparably little manpower because they're horribly hard to kill.
Yet the T17 costs both a lot of manpower(for the gun), and a shitload of fuel for no apparent survivability!

Could there be a fuel cost decrease, or perhaps a health buff for the unit? It dies to 2 shots from a P4, it can even get killed by Armored Cars with it's poor anti-penetration values. Heck, it can't penetrate an armored car itself with the gun, most of the time.

Of course, the unit can and has raped people horribly, but that required either extreme luck and/or skill for them to do that.

So yes, please at least a small fuel cost decrease to the T17, there's so few to be seen out there nowadays .

[Tymathee]

i'd have to agree with you, it dies from two shots from any at source and with its m8 armor, can die really easily to a puma.

[TheWindCriesMary]

 Play on the wrong end of a t17 for a week, and come back and tell me you still agree with this thread.

 If you do, so will I.

-Wind

[Baine]

Play on the wrong end of a t17 for a week, and come back and tell me you still agree with this thread.

 If you do, so will I.

-Wind

QFT. Yesterday my P4 got cricled by one of those. Before he could hit it(it dodges relatively well) he was down to 25%.
He didn't make it out.

[NightRain]

I've never played against T17 in EIRR environment but I once played with Mysthalin in VCoH and when I watched him just spam T17s I must say...

I lol'd

It is meant to be weak, its weakness is bought back by massive firepower it posesses along with speed.

[CafeMilani]

75 fuel.

[Mysthalin]

Play on the wrong end of a t17 for a week, and come back and tell me you still agree with this thread.

 If you do, so will I.

-Wind

If anyone bought them anymore, I would do that... But no, noone buys them .

On a side note, I think I will turn this thread into a light vehicle discussion overall, and tag on pumas, greyhounds, ACs, staghounds, all of the light vehicles!

[CafeMilani]

i love them, they are awesome.
when i unlocked this t2 armor ability which increases max pop by 2 ill buy 4 of them.

[BigDick]

ive 2 of them in my armor account... i took down a ostwind without stun with one T17

i killed a full health panzer4 without stun with 2 t17 i got hit zero times...these buggers are more amazing than M8 (which are very powerful since skirts are so cheap)

my armor company consists of 2 quad 2 t17 3 M8 and 6 M3 and 3 shermans 4 at guns flamers and riflemen

cant wait until allied warmachine is in

[Bubz]

Lol, I love how in every thread we come to hear about the amazing deeds of our heroes that nobody has ever seen playing or posting the games they play, a part from some rare wehrmacht replays. They always claim to have done this or that to support their points, but still nobody has ever seen them doing anything.

If you want to show something you should start to post replays where you actually do what you say instead of talking this crap.

[deadbolt]

T17s are fine as they are, i can get from anywhere to 1-3 tank kills and atleast 20 or more inf kills when im playing right.

[Baine]

T17s are fine as they are, i can get from anywhere to 1-3 tank kills and atleast 20 or more inf kills when im playing right.

You tell them!

And here for the rest of you:

YOU DONT HAVE TO USE IT

[Malevolence]

The manpower cost is fine - it pretty much makes up for it's rather amazing gun. The stun ability is also useful, but it lasts for only a short while and costs a seperate munition cost. For something that is only 175 HP, the fuel cost is completely off key. It has 25 more HP than a stock M8, which is roughly 16 percent better, yet it costs allmost 90 percent more in fuel

I believe that your interpretation here is a bit off.

20% more manpower and 80% more fuel for a vastly more effective gun? The average percentage more "stuff" the T17 costs is 50% more, and the gun I'd say is over 50% more effective, although the remainder of its stats are not.

The M8 needs to buy the gunner to be roughly as effective against infantry, for instance, and that costs an extra, what, 25 or 50 munitions? Then the T17 can buy vehicle stun and suddenly the T17 is leaps and bounds more effective against both infantry AND tanks.

It's a big investment, big reward situation.

[Mysthalin]

deadbolt, as my post initialy says - you gotta have immense skill and/or luck for something like that to happen. For a unit that's only useful at hunting and gangraping lone infantry with no AT or tanks, when in a wolfpack, it's not particularly worth the cost.
And the thing is - you're great at using vehicles. But units should be priced to be useful to the average player, not costed to what the best players can make them work like. If that were the case, we'd have to put Two's commandos to 750 MP and 300 MU, same for keiththarp's KCH - they're just that good.

My point is that the fuel cost doesn't really match the units survivability, and should be adressed. Heck, a 50 FU puma is 310 HP with a better armor. Where's the logic in that? The gun is not better, of course, but the MP price disrepancy deals with that part.

[Malevolence]

Frankly Two's commandos should only cost 750 MP and 300 MU if they come with vet 2 standard 

[CafeMilani]

only useful at hunting?    ur obviously not the person which is skilled enough to micro a t17.
its so easy because its so fast and it kills freaking fast.

[Mysthalin]

Obviously, I'm not going to take someone who retreats his entire army as soon as one guy out of 25 dies, seriously.

Go stomp some more noobs rather than participate in this discussion aloha, you're too much an idiot.

[CafeMilani]

well i beat u often enough so this 'strat' is obviously good enough 4 u

and btw: i dont retreat after 1 guy dies..

[Mysthalin]

You. Haven't. Ever. Beaten. Me.

And yeah, you do, then the game mysteriously desynced just as you were retreating your last guys.

[CafeMilani]

haha lies