Doctrine Discussion Thread

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[Demon767]

just to put  numbers out there to shut you up.

Bazooka

Damage 75
Accuracy LMS .35 .6 1.0

vs Axis Tanks Acc-Dmg-Pen w/s = with skirts

StuG 1-1-0.322
w/s 1-.75-0.249

P4 1-1.6-0.449 (dmg vs p4 120, same as scheck!)
w/s 1-1.2-0337 (dmg 90)

Panther 1.18-1.5-0.15 (dmg 112.5)
w/s 1-1.13-0.112 (dmg 84.75)

Tiger 1.35-1.5-0.185 (dmg 112.5)

Panzerschreck

Dmg 120
Acc LMS .35 .75 1.0

vs Allied Tanks Acc-Dmg-Pen

Sherman 1-1-0.878

M10 0.93-1-2.27

Pershing 1.08-1..459

so yeah...your whole argument is moot, where is this game changing bazooka, that at best will do the same damage to allied tanks as the lovely schreck. Where's the opness? Especially when I see dual schecks on the field all the time, zomg! that's 240 dmg on one platform, clearly my rifle with one 75 dmg zook and 100 dmg sticky will be too op for the axis tanks zomg!

How many extra man do you get with rifles,    Axis have 4 man groups, dual shreks means u have to support it with someting which just costs more pop. 2 rifles can support themelves. plus if your trying to shrek a tank u can easily take out a man since all allies tanks are so accurate vsing infantry, espcically when axis units run soooo closely together all the time.

[Bubz]

How much is a single zook?

[Mysthalin]

Demon, buy rangers, and go take out a P4 with it. See how it goes, save the replay if you manage it.

[Hydro]

Boys AT Rifle (Available for purchase on British Infantry)
anyone know the stats of this weapon?

[Tymathee]

just to put  numbers out there to shut you up.

Bazooka

Damage 75
Accuracy LMS .35 .6 1.0

vs Axis Tanks Acc-Dmg-Pen w/s = with skirts

StuG 1-1-0.322
w/s 1-.75-0.249

P4 1-1.6-0.449 (dmg vs p4 120, same as scheck!)
w/s 1-1.2-0337 (dmg 90)

Panther 1.18-1.5-0.15 (dmg 112.5)
w/s 1-1.13-0.112 (dmg 84.75)

Tiger 1.35-1.5-0.185 (dmg 112.5)

Panzerschreck

Dmg 120
Acc LMS .35 .75 1.0

vs Allied Tanks Acc-Dmg-Pen

Sherman 1-1-0.878

M10 0.93-1-2.27

Pershing 1.08-1..459

so yeah...your whole argument is moot, where is this game changing bazooka, that at best will do the same damage to allied tanks as the lovely schreck. Where's the opness? Especially when I see dual schecks on the field all the time, zomg! that's 240 dmg on one platform, clearly my rifle with one 75 dmg zook and 100 dmg sticky will be too op for the axis tanks zomg!

How many extra man do you get with rifles,    Axis have 4 man groups, dual shreks means u have to support it with someting which just costs more pop. 2 rifles can support themelves. plus if your trying to shrek a tank u can easily take out a man since all allies tanks are so accurate vsing infantry, espcically when axis units run soooo closely together all the time.

okay you get 6, so what, they're still using a single bazooka and it's not very effective vs tanks. It does get a dmg modifier, if and IF it penetrates the front armor, but that's only a 45% chance! I've seen zooks in 10 shots, miss, miss, bounce, bounce, miss bounce, miss bounce, hit, bounce.

 if that was a scheck vs a sherman?

hit, miss, miss hit, hit , miss dead.

now...coule that with the fact that most axis have a pak and double schrecks (240) so, you fire a salvo and you get a hit and miss every time, shermans are  630 health. How many salvos' does it take to kill the sherman? that's right kids! 3! How many hits from a single zook rifle squad (we're comparing 1 to 1 here) even if you add in stickies if and that's a big IF you  manage to stick the damn tank with the sticky while it's backing up and kiting your rifle squad, oh yeah, and while it's trying to throw the sitcky, it's not defending itself vs other things around the tank, it can't fire off the bazooka, so, even if i do manage to stick this 600 health p4 with my 100-150 dmg sticky, lets go middle ground and say it does 125 dmg, i still need 4 more hits to take it out with the 120 i get from dmg modifiers, and of course the tank is still shooting at my rifle, gibbing it while it's trying to take it out from its ass.

So yeah...Dual Scheck Grens > Sticky +  Zook Rifle.

Hell

Dual Schreck Gren squad > two sticky and zook rifle squads. more bang for the buck.

[Tymathee]

Boys AT Rifle (Available for purchase on British Infantry)
anyone know the stats of this weapon?

you use it to kill puppies

[Smithy17]

I can see a problem with multiple subversion companies (depending on the cooldown). If one player hits it just at the first engagement and the other just before the first time runs out the allied players will be 3 minutes without reinforcements. If the terror players attack very aggresively in the knowledge that they can bring more troops but their opponents can't they should be able to wipe out the allied starting platoons and claim the whole map (maybe at a heavy cost to their own units but still) and in the worse case cause the allies to surrender for not having units on the field.

[Tymathee]

I can see a problem with multiple subversion companies (depending on the cooldown). If one player hits it just at the first engagement and the other just before the first time runs out the allied players will be 3 minutes without reinforcements. If the terror players attack very aggresively in the knowledge that they can bring more troops but their opponents can't they should be able to wipe out the allied starting platoons and claim the whole map (maybe at a heavy cost to their own units but still) and in the worse case cause the allies to surrender for not having units on the field.

just like in old eir

[Silverstone]

Help me understand the bofors/17lbrs thing on royal engineer. It's unlocked now for everyone, doesn't that mean you get an extra whatever tier it is? If I won't stay that way when will it be removed?

[Hydro]

Commando Sniper (Unlocks the unit, can also purchase smoke and demo charge)

Uhm ninja with demos on cammo?


BTW to Luftwaffe, damn many nice options and I can't choose ^^

[Malevolence]

Tank Reapers is still gay   

Otherwise some new doctrinal changes are good, some are bad. Time will tell.

[BigDick]

just to put  numbers out there to shut you up.

Bazooka

Damage 75
Accuracy LMS .35 .6 1.0

vs Axis Tanks Acc-Dmg-Pen w/s = with skirts

StuG 1-1-0.322
w/s 1-.75-0.249

P4 1-1.6-0.449 (dmg vs p4 120, same as scheck!)
w/s 1-1.2-0337 (dmg 90)

Panther 1.18-1.5-0.15 (dmg 112.5)
w/s 1-1.13-0.112 (dmg 84.75)

Tiger 1.35-1.5-0.185 (dmg 112.5)

Panzerschreck

Dmg 120
Acc LMS .35 .75 1.0

vs Allied Tanks Acc-Dmg-Pen

Sherman 1-1-0.878

M10 0.93-1-2.27

Pershing 1.08-1..459

so yeah...your whole argument is moot, where is this game changing bazooka, that at best will do the same damage to allied tanks as the lovely schreck. Where's the opness? Especially when I see dual schecks on the field all the time, zomg! that's 240 dmg on one platform, clearly my rifle with one 75 dmg zook and 100 dmg sticky will be too op for the axis tanks zomg!

same discussion everytime
the numbers are

P4 - bazzooka (40 mun per bazzoka currently on rangers dont know the price on riflemen)

75dmg*1.6=120dmg 45% frontal penetration (rear penetration "always")

Sherman - schreck (125mun average on grenadiers 150mun on storms)

120dmg*1.0=120dmg 88% frontal penetration (rear penetration like bazookas)

sherman vs grenadiers >>>>> panzer4 vs riflemen/rangers

you get not even doubled penetration on schrecks for more than 300% costs

in the calculation is not included the possibility that rifleman can get stickies, can protect themself against Infantry and that there are buffs of tankreapers

[brn4meplz]

How many times do you see people stand in a field when the duke it out? You don't, usually you get off very few shots. So despite the cost effectiveness the Schrek is still better. you've got a 12% chance not to penetrate with a schrek on a sherman. Your still way better off paying the 120 munitions for a schrek. Zooks have uses but frontal shotting P4's is not one of them.

[Baine]

I can see a problem with multiple subversion companies (depending on the cooldown). If one player hits it just at the first engagement and the other just before the first time runs out the allied players will be 3 minutes without reinforcements. If the terror players attack very aggresively in the knowledge that they can bring more troops but their opponents can't they should be able to wipe out the allied starting platoons and claim the whole map (maybe at a heavy cost to their own units but still) and in the worse case cause the allies to surrender for not having units on the field.

just like in old eir

Eh what? As i recall, in old EIR it just disabled one(2 or 3 ) call ins. Now it's a useable ability.

[Unkn0wn]

You will be notified obviously when it gets triggered, we will definitely pay close attention to how it plays out. We could always make it 'randomly' disable platoons for x amount of time if need be.

[Mysthalin]

Subversion disabled 4 callins and increased your callin times by 50 percent or so.

[Mgallun74]

question on the tiers... i notice on tier 1 you get 4 choices... iam sure on tier 3 u get 3, tier 2, 2 etc...  do we need to choose in 1 line again? or can be pick or choose any of them?

[Unkn0wn]

You can make any combination you want.
Obviously though some abilities imply that you have unlocked another ability, i.e it would be silly if you got the Pershing prototype T4 without actually unlocking the pershing.

[Mgallun74]

cool, didnt want to be force to click all the buttons say above t4 of TR... as not all them sound good etc.. thanks!

[jackmccrack]

You can make any combination you want.
Obviously though some abilities imply that you have unlocked another ability, i.e it would be silly if you got the Pershing prototype T4 without actually unlocking the pershing.

Ah, this is good. So we don't necessary have to unlock all in a single column in order to get the last ability of the tree. I like!