cloaking units 4 US

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[Tymathee]

As far as I know (and what the RGD's just said) both stormtroopers and regular grenadiers use the stormtrooper_kar_98 rifle, the same weapon, unless something else is different a vanilla stormtrooper squad has the same damage output as the grens do.

And that's fine really, stormtroopers are infiltration squads and rangers are assault squad and their abilities are as such.

they do. Storm troopers are essentially grenadies with +5 hp that can cloak and have mp44's. maybe storms need to only have one schreck, getting tired of surprise gibs by storms that then can stay near a tank and run away before i can smack 'em

[Ahnungsloser]

Okay. Have looked it up and your right. Didn't know that the Panzergrenadiere already carry the better wapeon.


Maybe they have -10HP and no elite armour but they can eat a short range M4 Sherman splash damage, while the ranger would lose one squad member in a direct hit. Their overall combat survivability is better espacially with the fact that you can easily pop a medkit and you don't need extra healing stuff.

[nikomas]

Thats the thing thou, without the first strike ability the stormtroopers are not effective units, without the cloak they are just grenadiers that can equip MP44's... As I said earlier, removing cloak would be removing the assault part of rangers, making the entire unit moot.

And don't get me wrong here, I fucking HATE double shreck storms while playing axis but single shrecks storms wouldn't really be a good alternative either, the simple reason is that if you cant alphastrike a Cromwell, that Cromwell can kite and kill two squads of storms if the player knows his micro... Anyway, that's another debate entierly...

My point still is, removing cloak from storms really would be like removing elite armor and fireup from rangers, it would destroy the units whole role be it assault or infiltration. Also, Tym? Make that +15 hp, grens got 80 and storms 95 I think.

Maybe they have -10HP and no elite armour but they can eat a short range M4 Sherman splash damage, while the ranger would lose one squad member in a direct hit. Their overall combat survivability is better espacially with the fact that you can easily pop a medkit and you don't need extra healing stuff.

Only against tanks thou, if you pin a stormsquad against a ranger squad I'd say the rangers have better short term survivability, I'd agree thou that the storms definitly have more long term survivability, with medkits and all...

On the other hand, buying medkits for all your grens and storms costs way more muni than a pair of traiges or CCS's would, no doubt it's more powerful but it also costs more.

[Mysthalin]

You make the health argument,  but did you also factor in that it's a 6 man vs a 4 man squad? In this case...
65 x 6 = 390
95 x 4 = 380

Never, ever quote squad health. It is the MOST irrelevant thing in the game.

And that's fine really, stormtroopers are infiltration squads and rangers are assault squad and their abilities are as such.

If we're going to talk roles.. Since when does infiltration require masses and masses of health in order to be successful? All it requires is stealth and good damage.

End of day, however, I'd rather stormtroopers kept good health and finally lost the double-shrek. Would be a perfectly fine unit then. NOTHING else in the game can pack so much firepower in just 10 popcap. If you even took airborne and gave them the ability to buy quad RRs, you still wouldn't able to pack the same level of firepower per popcap. That is a problem, and needs to be fixed.

[nikomas]

Never, ever quote squad health. It is the MOST irrelevant thing in the game.

If we're going to talk roles.. Since when does infiltration require masses and masses of health in order to be successful? All it requires is stealth and good damage.

End of day, however, I'd rather stormtroopers kept good health and finally lost the double-shrek. Would be a perfectly fine unit then. NOTHING else in the game can pack so much firepower in just 10 popcap. If you even took airborne and gave them the ability to buy quad RRs, you still wouldn't able to pack the same level of firepower per popcap. That is a problem, and needs to be fixed.

Dude, "He started it" on the whole health thing, lol, I was just correcting a misunderstanding

And health on an ambush/infiltration squad does matter if you actually expect it to survive whatever it's attacking, MP44's on storms would be pretty pointless if they didnt have the health to take on whatever they were ambushing now would it? I guess it's unfair to call em pure infiltratior units, more of a Hybrid I guess. Even then, assault units like KCH or rangers they are certainly not.

And again, with single shrecks ambushing tanks suddenly becomes almost futile, with 2 squads of them you would not be able to kill a tank, as I said before anyone with half a brain can outmicro storms with a crom or shermans, either that first volley makes the tank retreat or you RUN, and the only way to get away from it at that point is to pop blitzkrieg and run back to the nearest defense.

[Tymathee]

dual schreck storms ambushing wouldnt' be futile, it's still 300 damage being inflicted, that's most of an m10/m18, kills an m8, quad, half of a sherman etc.

[AmPM]

Remove all cloaking out of cover.

[TheVolskinator]

Remove all cloaking out of cover.

+1 except for snipers.

[AmPM]

+1 except for snipers.

Nah, including snipers, use cover.