Abbeville Winter

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[tank130]

I want to review each of these maps to see why they are not getting played. I would like people who ACTUALLY PLAYED THE MAP to give their input on what they liked and disliked about the map. What could be done to improve the map.

The the owner of the map will have to the option to make the suggested changes or allow someone else to make the changes for them. If the changes are just too overwhelming and not worth the efforts, we will just remove the map.

Show Some respect:

People put a lot of work into these maps. Comments like "it sucks" will not be tolerated. Post useful, helpful comments or just don't post.
We need input from people who actually want to help and better the playing environment.

If you can't play nice, just don't post please.

If you need a screen shot of the map to show notes etc, let me know and I will unpack it and post the shot.

[EIRRMod]

Well, my feedback on this is due to my enjoyment of the original Abbeville, and this remake is a similar expansion to 4v4.

In simple terms, its too close to Abbeville.  Everyone played Abbeville to death, as it was (Is imo) a great map, well balanced in most areas, but overplayed.

If a number of extra key points were changed (Abbeville winter was changed slightly to make it different to vAbbeville, but it needs more) to change the flow of the game.

I believe the original idea by Unknown was to capture the feeling of the 3v3 into a 4v4, but this is the problem imo, it needs to be a different feel.

Im sorry Im not being specific on area changes for example, because its more of a 'gut' feeling of what needs to change rather than specifics (as it actually is a good map atm).

[puddin]

Slightly shoerter, slightly wider with flanking abiliyt and it will be better/.

[XIIcorps]

What if there were slightly less trees to the top with more acess to flanking,

maybe a few less buildings or more damage to existing buildings.

Slight heightmap variations to simulate snow fall and its accumulation.

[Unkn0wn]

People were playing it a lot when it was just released, ergo there's nothing really wrong with it. Just like with the original Abbeville which was the most popular 3vs3 map for many months on end people basically moved on to other maps.

[Masacree]

I really like this map.

[tank130]

OP updated

[Tymathee]

it's a great map but yeah, I think people just got sick of abbeville even though IMO it's a much better version of Abbeville.

this ones a keeper.

[tank130]

I find it too wide and spread out. It tends to turn into 1-2v2 and a 1v1, or one side gets totally ignored.

Nothing worse then some dude 'defending the chateau' while a 3v2 is going on in the middle.....lol
I know that is not the fault of the map, but the map tends to support and encourage it.

Could be as simple as removing the hedge that separates the chateau from the middle? Or maybe it is just a doomed map. Skaffatology says there is no right flank, so map is unplayable........lol

[skaffa]

Right side (chateau) is actually my favorite spot. You can atleast do SOME flanking there, whereas the left is just 1 big wooded area which is hardly used. I would personally like to see less trees on the left, make it a bit more open. Right now I find it too narrow for a 4v4.

[tank130]

Right side (chateau) is actually my favorite spot. You can atleast do SOME flanking there, whereas the left is just 1 big wooded area which is hardly used. I would personally like to see less trees on the left, make it a bit more open. Right now I find it too narrow for a 4v4.

Huh...... you have indicated on Dday that the right flank can be negated with a couple of TT and fails

Place 3 TT beside the chateau and the entire right side of the map is a no go.
Place a HMG in the chateau, ATG beside it and you have shut down the entire right flank.

Are you sure we are looking at the same map....LOL

[Unkn0wn]

whereas the left is just 1 big wooded area which is hardly used.

An area that is hardly used, by definition, makes it perfect for flanking no? The lanes trees are spread enough for vehicles to get through and there's plenty of cover.

I agree it's a bit narrow for a 4vs4, but that was intended anyway. (Since it was ultimately a 3vs3 map turned into a 4vs4 due to popular demand and the need for more 4vs4 maps) It can be a bit of a meat grinder at times, but that's exactly the point.

[skaffa]

Huh...... you have indicated on Dday that the right flank can be negated with a couple of TT and fails

Place 3 TT beside the chateau and the entire right side of the map is a no go.
Place a HMG in the chateau, ATG beside it and you have shut down the entire right flank.

Are you sure we are looking at the same map....LOL

The right side is my favorite spot to play because the middle and left are shit. The chateau is the best you can get in this map. If you know what you are doing you can actually sometimes push thru into the enemy's backfields.

If you want to discuss DDAY please do so in its respective topic. There you can find my opinion, based on pics, on the beach gap in 3+ posts. Use your brain to try and imagine (theorycraft) what the difference is between dday beach gap and abbe right side flank.

BTW my point in this topic is that its my favorite spot to play on. That doesnt mean I find it perfectly designed or would not change some aspects, I didnt comment on that. Whereas on dday topic I did comment on the design specifically, altho with the disclaimer I hadnt played it yet.

The middle is a big clusterfuck with no real big avenues of approach, only the middle road. Most of the time you have some enemy units waiting where you are going. No surprise moves or attacks are really possible. Whenever you move in to the other side you can be sure you gonna walk into some fire.

The left side is unused. It has too many trees. A proper 25 pop formation can hardly be set up there. Moving thru this area in orderly formation is also a pain in the ass. When finally making it thru and wanting to go in towards the middle to pull a flank you have no open avenue to approach from. There is either some buildings blocking you, forcing you to go around, or more woods preventing you from forming up a proper formation with your army. Retreating in orderly german fashing also becomes horrid once you realise your flank on the left side is doomed to failure.

This is, briefly put, my opinion about Abbeville. Some like it, some dont. Its a decent map for eir standards because their are a lot worse maps out there, gameplay however is nothing interesting.

[tank130]

Interesting analysis......

One has to wonder how this map was the most popular in Eirr for the longest time....

Some would claim it was because all the other maps were shit......but some claim that is the case now and why Nueville is at the top.

I think the truth is, it's a good map that got insanely over played. I got fucking sick of it. That beings said, I would like to see a couple of minor changes, but that can be said of every map in our roster; even the coveted Nueville.

[Unkn0wn]

I'm afraid I don't have COH installed at the moment and I am currently residing in Russia so I would be unable to do any possibly desirable modifcations to it myself. If somebody else is willing to do it however, I am more than willing to give them my blessing, provided they don't make any massive changes without my consent.

[tank130]

I'm afraid I don't have COH installed at the moment and I am currently residing in Russia so I would be unable to do any possibly desirable modifcations to it myself. If somebody else is willing to do it however, I am more than willing to give them my blessing, provided they don't make any massive changes without my consent.

Do you mind if I just stamp D-Day into the middle.......

[Tymathee]

do it! do it! do it!

[Masacree]

Interesting analysis......

One has to wonder how this map was the most popular in Eirr for the longest time....

Some would claim it was because all the other maps were shit......but some claim that is the case now and why Nueville is at the top.

I think the truth is, it's a good map that got insanely over played. I got fucking sick of it. That beings said, I would like to see a couple of minor changes, but that can be said of every map in our roster; even the coveted Nueville.

Uhhhhh because one person's opinion != the entire community's opinion.

The difference between the right flank of Abbeville Winter and the right flank of D-Day seem obvious to me, but if you want I can spell it out.

1. Most of the shotblockers which isolate the right flank of Abbeville are hedges and thus can be destroyed. The shotblockers which isolate the right flank of D-Day are a cliff, which cannot be circumvented.

2. The entrances into the right flank of D-Day are both easily covered by long range weapons - i.e. you can't use you the flanks to flank.

3. The trenches on the right flank of D-Day ruin the pathing of any sort of armored vehicle.

I think you get the idea. It's also important to keep in mind that Abbeville was popular in a different kind  of meta-game environment, and so it's not immediately possible to compare their relative popularity.

If you want I can go on.

Edit: I should mention that I find it mildly amusing that tank's intention behind becoming map lead is so obviously an attempt to skew the community's perceptions towards his maps.

[tank130]

Your right masacree...... you got it all figured out, you little detective you......


Would you mind passing the message on to all the other mappers that unfortunately we are unable to upload their maps.

It seems that once again the ungrateful fucks of this community have forced one more Dev not to give  a fuck. So once again we have no one on staff to up load maps.

The good news is, Masacree can feed his epeen by thinking he caught a fast one.

Masacree - just one more reason why this dev team just doesn't give a fuck anymore