The loveable AVRE

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[CafeMilani]

even if u drive toward 2 paks it wont die but 1 pak will probably die. an avre should not kill a pak 100% of the time, that would be too easy..

[Bubz]

Avre is slow and fat you can circle strafe it with a pak, if you see it coming move away and everything is ok. And 2 paks vs 1 avre, unless they are uncloack and turned the wrong way they're gonna do lots of damage...

[Mysthalin]

It's not the fact the AVRE shell is that bad - it's the fact it's only available once every 3 minutes! Like a howitzer or calliope barrage! Can you honestly and truthfully say you ever went "oh fuck" when you saw an AVRE, as much as you would have if you had seen a cali? Thought so.

[Bubz]

-or a brit blob of piats 
I don't think avre is an issue apart from cooldown, maybe put it on 90 seconds and do something about those autohealing emplacements which are far more urgent (unless they're planned to be this way )

[Mgallun74]

last night i saw AMPMs AVRE.. he shot a pak 38 and it killed the crew instantly, but barely if any damage on the gun itself...

then


he 


had


to


wait


forever to use it again... horrible reload time.

[Pak75mm]

everyone saw my avre and started using it back in last patch as well as croc churchills. I see very very very very few now. I cant afford em right now but as soon as i get brit build again you will cry more.

[Draken]

I cant afford em right now but as soon as i get brit build again you will cry more.

Yes I cried when I was on your team and you started with it...

[Mysthalin]

Don't give yourself too much credit pak... I used AVREs because they were the only good thing that didn't cost PPs in an urban setting(to fight all those MGs).
Btw, tetrarchs have gone from fun to useless in the patches, as well.
Will make a post about it too!

[Unkn0wn]

When were trenches ever fun?

[Mysthalin]

L2Read

[panzerjager1943]

Mys, Tetrarches are nowhere near useless with the damage reduction. Now they take 2 more shots to kill a Piv -- Good! It's a freaking Light Tank, not a Firefly. It's a 2lb Gun for Christ' sake, and it was doing almost as much damage as a 75mm Gun (close to 17lbs.)

It's cost was reduced by 40 manpower, from 340 to 300.

[Mysthalin]

I don't see how a  percent drop in effectiveness is compensated by a 40 mp cost reduction(which is rather negligible, you get 3 tetrarchs per company, 120 MP total).

The tetrarch used to be able to kill a P4 in 8 shots. That is hardly easily done, as it takes, on average, 4.5 seconds to reload after each shot. + 1.5 seconds wind down. 6 seconds a shot. So, 48 seconds to kill a P4, with no misses or non-penetrations. Now it's 60 seconds to kill a P4, no misses or non-penetrations. That is, in effect a 20-25 percent reduction in effectiveness.

Pulling up a pak and/or within a 44(at the very least) second timeframe, is hardly an impossible feat. Making it 55(at least) second makes it absolutely impossible to not get away into a safe zone from the tetrarch. Not to mention that the tetrarch user is sweating his ass off trying to get out of your gun's firing line - he's not microing any other units.

A P4 has a 0.94 accuracy modifier against the tet's 2 pdr. Tet's also have a 0.5(really) moving accuracy modifier. Making it only a 49 percent chance to actualy hit a P4 at point blank/medium range! So, effectively, the times double! If someone can't deal with a light tank that is pretty much disabled within 2 shots ( 5 hp tanks aren't something of too great usefullness on the front lines) from a pak, within a stunning 90 seconds at the very worst of situations for the P4, it's a problem with the P4 player, not the tetrarch as a unit. Changing it to 112 seconds at the very best for the tetrarch, will not help balance at all - tetrarchs will simply cease to exist as a unit. I guess, then there won't be a problem, so we won't have to imagine a problem...

In conclusion - I know the tetrarch was annoying as hell, but it was not OP. Investing that 340 MP 80 FU 70 MU in a tetrarch was investing 25 percent of your clicks(or even up to 50 percent) per game into that one unit. It has paper armor and health(exact same as upgraded greyhound), and that is it's weakness. It had mobility, and it had firepower, which made it useful. Mobility but with neglibible firepower is, blatantly, useless.

P.S. If anyone will want, I'll put up calculations vs a StuG(in effect hetzer, ostwind and wirblewind as well). Take into account, by the way, that a tetrarch has a 15 percent chance at point blank to penetrate a hetzers frontal armor - that "one more shot" to kill the hetzer litelarly becomes 8 more shots to kill it.

P.P.S. If we're taking realism into account for the tank guns as a reason for balancing, I want the firefly to instagib any axis tank front from armor and to fire from across the map. Same for Pershing, Panther. Also the tet to always cause immobilised/main gun destroyed criticals - as the crew of a tetrarch would have shot the threads vs any tank first, then shot the gun as it's second, and would have always hit them at such short range.

[RikiRude]

Croc churchies are fucking awesome! i really dont know what more to add to that, i love them =D