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Author Topic: [WM] 2 cm/5.0 cm Puma  (Read 9907 times)
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DarkSoldierX Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3041



« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2011, 03:24:20 pm »

The puma's do really suck and should be buffed. Hell even the ostwind is fail because it never hits anything. All an ostwind does is go "ooooo look at me, I'm a scary ostwind run away now because all I can really do is make pretty browns hole colors in the dirt. Maybe a riflemans will walk accidentally into my brutally inaccurate gun fire". You could also go with "oooo look at me I'm a stummel, a now absolutely worthless unit that it's only purpose in life is to feed allies more vet". The puma is just too said now, that it doesn't even need a "ooo look at me" because it is just that much fail. Three 20 mm puma's failed to kill a standing still airborne squad as they all eventually died to said airborne squad. What happened to the puma? It used to be able to kill things, now it is utter fail. I say switch out the ostwind for wirblewinds, change the puma 20 mm to match the pe armor car, and buff the dmg slightly on the up-gun puma. For the stummel, It needs to go back to its all gun but make the unit slower and give it a slower accel/deccel. This way it would not be able to zoom out away from at gun's and it would be balanced. I think the dev's need to look outside the box sometimes when it comes to unit balance instead of making said unit utter and complete crap.

Your argument is invalid when it doesn't make sense, I mean its not opinion but facts you disregard.

Puma 20mm = AC 20mm, they were equalized (AC was worse) a few patches ago.

Puma hasn't been directly nerfed. And its metagame isn't damaged either.

Now opinion wise, Ostwind is probably one of the best AI vehicles in the game. I mean it can kill a rifleman squad with ease when they decide to come closer than long range, keeping your support safe from alot of infantry assaults.

Strummels could use a buff, but definitely not the old super OP weapon they had.

Puma does do fine for its cost, just that its has to harass more often.
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two words
atgs and fireflies
Looks who's butthurt
*waiting* 4 DarkSoldierNoobiX pops up to prove how much shit the T17 is penetrating KTs back and Jagd front and how much better the ac/puma is penetrating m10 rear  Cool Cool Cool
PonySlaystation Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4168



« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2011, 04:04:30 pm »

Puma 20mm = AC 20mm, they were equalized (AC was worse) a few patches ago.

Just because the gun is the same doesn't mean that they are the same. The PE armored car is faster, more maneuverable, cheaper and most importantly it's actually being used, meaning it actually has some use, unlike the Puma.

Puma hasn't been directly nerfed. And its metagame isn't damaged either.

It's very underpowered, it's never used and it has been directly nerfed. Phase armor was changed and it doesn't have the things that made it good in vCoH. It's kind of like if you make a mod and include riflemen but don't give them BARs. Obviously they're gonna suck compared to Grenadiers armed with LMGs.

Puma does do fine for its cost, just that its has to harass more often.

What? It's probably one of the least used units in the mod. Smart players simply understand that it's not worth the price. There are other units which are much more cost-effective units like Grenadiers and Ostwinds. Yes, it's overpriced. No, it's not fine for it's cost.
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Malgoroth Offline
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Posts: 961


« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2011, 05:03:49 pm »

They way I see it is the Wehrmacht do have the better tanks than the Americans, so giving them powerful light vehicles would tip the balance too much. British tanks on the other hand can handle themselves quite nicely against Wehr tanks, and they have powerful LVs to boot. But the Wehr is hardly helpless against them so giving them better light vehicles even in that case is still somewhat unwarranted.

Pumas are the kinds of units where you get like... 2 if you have the spare fuel and use them in conjunction with bigger/better tanks to help kill annoying targets. Like... there's a firefly sniping at your p4, or a fat ass cock sucking churchill being stupid, you could use a flanking 50 puma to help the p4 bring it down. They aren't completely useless, but they aren't the kind of unit you would prioritize in your micro.
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Tymathee Offline
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Posts: 9756



« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2011, 05:26:01 pm »

exactly. Like mal said, puma's are great support units but are not to be used like m8's and quads mainly because of how hard the main allied at, the 57 hits. 2-3 shots and its done.

I used to run a fun 50mm puma spam company before i discovered the power of the ostwind.

but heres the thing...how do u buff a puma? if u give it too much acc or dmg, you will have them raping squads, not enugh and it does nothing.

maybe give the 20mm puma added suppression (which will make it a lil more useful and at the same time lower its damage output) and the 50mm more range possibly? this is as a buff not to the normal unit but a doc ability.

and if the 50mm range could be buffed as an ability, then 2.5 (42.5) would be my suggestion, just enough to make sure it gets the first shost and enough to get away sometimes but not enough to kite most shots but just some.
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"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"

Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 8001



« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2011, 07:00:57 pm »

exactly. Like mal said, puma's are great support units but are not to be used like m8's and quads mainly because of how hard the main allied at, the 57 hits. 2-3 shots and its done.

I used to run a fun 50mm puma spam company before i discovered the power of the ostwind.

but heres the thing...how do u buff a puma? if u give it too much acc or dmg, you will have them raping squads, not enugh and it does nothing.

maybe give the 20mm puma added suppression (which will make it a lil more useful and at the same time lower its damage output) and the 50mm more range possibly? this is as a buff not to the normal unit but a doc ability.

and if the 50mm range could be buffed as an ability, then 2.5 (42.5) would be my suggestion, just enough to make sure it gets the first shost and enough to get away sometimes but not enough to kite most shots but just some.

Or simply reduce its price and pop to fit it's ability instead of making it more deadly...
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puddin Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1701



« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2011, 07:27:14 pm »

the 50mm puma is not worth 8 pop in its current form, because the m8 is 8, u understand the want for it 8 pop but its not worth it...

its a 6 pop cap at unit that really can;t do much at, and does so little dmg its amazing.
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Puddin' spamtm
i cant really blame smokaz i mean playing against puddin is like trying to fight off breast cancer. You might win and do it and be a bad ass but you'll feel sick and mutilated forever.

Puddin' spamtm is soulcrushing... what's hard to understand about that?
AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 8001



« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2011, 07:49:52 pm »

the 50mm puma is not worth 8 pop in its current form, because the m8 is 8, u understand the want for it 8 pop but its not worth it...

its a 6 pop cap at unit that really can;t do much at, and does so little dmg its amazing.

Make the Puma cap territory. Make it 4pop for the 20mm, 6pop for the 50mm.

Useful.
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DarkSoldierX Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3041



« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2011, 09:02:29 pm »

Make the Puma cap territory. Make it 4pop for the 20mm, 6pop for the 50mm.

Useful.
Your joking right
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smurfORnot Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4719



« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2011, 10:11:02 pm »

Quote
maybe give the 20mm puma added suppression (which will make it a lil more useful and at the same time lower its damage output) and the 50mm more range possibly? this is as a buff not to the normal unit but a doc ability.

what good would 50mm do with more range? he needs to haras things,not engage them from front,in order to harass things it needs to flank,more range with no LOS is waste,sicne u cant use it rly effective.

so 20mm puma with a suppression would kill stuff even less,right? supress something,do almost no dmg with its crap gun,since suppressed units take less dmg? Give it carnister shot,hehe


And all who say,wehr mustn't be given goo LV,ffs buffing something to be USEFUL doesnt mean automatically that thing will be OP and better than all allies LV's,since it wont be.
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kwiatekkek Offline
okultysta, mistyk, szachista i alpinista.
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Posts: 704



« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2011, 12:53:52 am »

puma as  a  base unit  isnt that  bad, i mean  you kill   one atg , and it allready paid  for itself  right?
it  could  use  some  doc  love
maybe if it  could   cap  with   blitz,  + acc  bonuses  with  def, and  +dmg  with  terror ?
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8thRifleRegiment Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2224



« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2011, 06:22:30 am »

it does get terror damage bonus, Terror Pumas are nasty to play against. Otherwise, they arent worth a shit
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smurfORnot Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4719



« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2011, 06:51:59 am »

puma as  a  base unit  isnt that  bad, i mean  you kill   one atg , and it allready paid  for itself  right?
it  could  use  some  doc  love
maybe if it  could   cap  with   blitz,  + acc  bonuses  with  def, and  +dmg  with  terror ?

pios can also kill atg and they paid itself few times over,why not just use them then?
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PonySlaystation Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4168



« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2011, 07:59:44 am »

pios can also kill atg and they paid itself few times over,why not just use them then?

Kiwis logic is kinda fail.
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deadbolt Offline
Probably Banned
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4460



« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2011, 08:03:30 am »

pios can also kill atg and they paid itself few times over,why not just use them then?

when you make this kind of arguement retards like you shouldnt even be allowed to participate in balance
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He made a funny thread for bear, and got banned.

Now bear makes his own funny thread. It's unsurprisingly not funny.

Keeps died for our funny threads.
smurfORnot Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4719



« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2011, 08:07:28 am »

then tell me,why is not everyone using pumas to kill atg's,since they can do it...enlight me please...
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