Luftwaffe Infantry

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[Baine]

Just wondering why Luftwaffe Infantry is 190 mp while volks are 185mp.

I always thought they were the same stats wise? If Luftwaffe could be made 185mp i could exchange them with volks.

[BigDick]

they have even less health
they had advanced repair but since that is replaced by repair kits something like 175 would fit better for that doctrine dependent unit

[Baine]

Anything? Anyone?

[Unkn0wn]

You're right, they were 190 because of the repair, we will probably have to tweak the price.

[Smokaz]

Four reasons:

- PEs only cost effective recrewing inf (in the same doctrine that gives mg42s and mortars to PE)
- Hand over ability (if you field over 4 luftwaffle squads the non-recrewing ones can be equipped with g43s)
- Crete veterans + handover makes them superior to mp40 volks for less munitions
- If you create a proper core, you can oversupply to 27-29 pop at start with luftwaffles costing you 1 SP

Cost decrease seems unneccessary given this.

[Unkn0wn]

We don't price units based on the doctrine abilities they could possibly have affecting them.

[Smokaz]

Not even doctrine units within their own doctrine?  At any rate they should never be cheaper than volks.

[Unkn0wn]

No, that would also imply we would have to raise the cost on rangers, etc just because someone might get doctrine abilities that will affect them.

Basing unit costs on 'potential' rather than 'performance' would make the prices unfair for people who use those units but did not get the doctrine abilities.

[Bubz]

And are you going to make pe infantry 5 pop or keep to 4?

[Smokaz]

Ok, name 1 other use than recrewing cheaper-than-volks luftwaffes will be used for outside the luft doctrine.

[nugnugx]

t4 luft 20% more dmg 15 % more acc  , killer snipe units from cover

[Smokaz]

t4 luft 20% more dmg 15 % more acc  , killer snipe units from cover

Outside the luftwaffe doctrine?

[BigDick]

Four reasons:

- PEs only cost effective recrewing inf (in the same doctrine that gives mg42s and mortars to PE)

to be the only recrewing infantry for a faction does not excuses that they can be overpriced
afaik they get one hmg in a supply drop as doctrine ability

- Hand over ability (if you field over 4 luftwaffle squads the non-recrewing ones can be equipped with g43s)

that is a doctrine ability it does not implies that everyone will get that

- Crete veterans + handover makes them superior to mp40 volks for less munitions

you should know that mp40 and G43 are completely different weapon types?

they cannot be compared and that a mp40 is overpriced for its crappy unit type that carries it, does not mean a G43 on this crap platform is op

- If you create a proper core, you can oversupply to 27-29 pop at start with luftwaffles costing you 1 SP

you can do that with airborne supply drop and riflemen too and every noob advantages player can do that

Cost decrease seems unneccessary given this.

luftwaffe ground forces where good for 190MP as long as you saved the 40 mun for advanced repair upgrade and could fix your halftrack army but now due to introducing repair kits and removing advanced repair, they got  nerfed

[Smokaz]

If you are Scorched Earth or tank hunters, luftwaffles gives you sandbag and wire. Scorch can get wire only through a doctrine choice, but not sandbags.  The luftwaffe package also gives the *edit* same availability of waffles than the blitzkrieg volkgrenadiers reinforcement pack gives of volks. Its a single SP each game for calling in 2 wehr mortars, 42's and 2 shreks which is worth it in any and all games. Unless anyone can provide a argument for why less than half price mortars, mg42s and extra shreks are not wanted in a game?

I do know that g43s and mp40s are different upgrades, 1 upgrade starts losing critical firepower from the first dead guy and is more expensive while the other takes 3+ losses which equals retreat before the upgraded weapons are los or squad destroyed. Prior to doctrine implementation for those of you who still remember or played then this mechanic was what made thompson only rangers so extremely powerful.

The real challenge here for you here BD is to make a reasonable argument for why luftwaffles are not cheap enough recrewing guys for PE, and why Wehr should have access to cheaper recrewing infantry than volks.

Edit: not sure how 5/3 availability and 4/3 availability on luftwaffe and blitz reinforcement package plays out when you are not doing luft/luft blitz/blitz

[salan]

the Falls supply drop is suppose to be 1 panzershrek and 1 LMG, not a hmg and mortar.  It will be changed at some point to reflect the mobility of PE.

It was just used because the supply drop was already there and easy filler for now.

[Smokaz]

In that case I urge you to test what happens when a g43 squad with a lmg uses supression fire

[Piotrskivich]

I did that with a picked up lmg once, didn't seem all that effective, does the suppression fire ability lower the squads damage by any chance?

[Smokaz]

It reduces the damage by something like 0.90 or 0.80 and also adds supression + slow effect + big rate of fire buff, which means they deal a lot less damage. However, if you pair up two g43 squads slowing the same target it can be supressed out of cover, now imagine what happens when lmgs are added with their burst and much higherr supression.

[Malevolence]

Should be pick-uppable StG44s if there's still code for that (they used to be droppable in vanilla, I think, so there should still be a model?)

That would fit PE's mobility a lot better than the LMG (2 StGs) because it's literally an assault weapon. Just an idea (could make MP44 on storm/whatever undroppable still while having those on the field dropped I'm fairly certain...)

[DuckOfDoom]

Should be pick-uppable StG44s if there's still code for that (they used to be droppable in vanilla, I think, so there should still be a model?)

That would fit PE's mobility a lot better than the LMG (2 StGs) because it's literally an assault weapon. Just an idea (could make MP44 on storm/whatever undroppable still while having those on the field dropped I'm fairly certain...)

Thats not a good idea, since most stg44 squads have every member armed with one, which means that a dead squad member will result in a dropped weapon that can be potentially utilized by the opponent. Its even more likely given how close you have to be to use stg44s.