Jadgpanther

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[AmPM]

Alrighty, I was looking at my doctrine, wondering what t3's to buy. Only one that works is the Jadg.

So I checked up on its price, then checked its gun, and stats.

Then I checked my Panther.

Why would I want this thing for the Pop of 3 Marders, that costs almost the same MP as 3 Marders, and nearly 1.5x as much fuel as 3 Marders?

3 Marders do more damage, penetrate about the same, have longer range, and can cover each other from circle strafing tanks.

Jadg has no MG, no skirts, and is easily hit in its ass.

Needs a Pop and price decrease to bring it in line with a single purpose vehicle with no defense from its counter.

There is a reason it is never used, in the last war or this one.

[Scyn]

Or we could nerf the Marder so that Jadg looks more appealing.

[panzerjager1943]

Jagdpanther is faster, can fire while moving, and is WAAY tougher than 3 Marders; it can also kill 2 AT guns during the same fight, where as the Marder can't even deal with 1.

Use it for it's survivability and speed. Marders can't breakthrough a heavy defense; not even 3 of them. That's not to say we won't be rebalancing the Jagd, I'm just telling you it's advantages.

[Latios418]

Or we could nerf the Marder so that Jadg looks more appealing.

Considering the shit state of PE's AT right now, no.

[DasNoob]

Or we could nerf the Marder so that Jadg looks more appealing.

Considering the shit state of PE's AT right now, no.

He was being sarcastic.  I brought this same point up in the dev threads AmPm, it will be looked at.

[Tymathee]

i've seen lots of vetted jagd's. Just like you and your hetzers, just gotta learn how to play with it. Jagd's are much more dangerous to allied tanks than a regular panther especially since it regularly bounces allied at gun shots, allied tanks expect the british sherman (name escapes me right now) and the pershing can't penetration it from the front.

Even then, the thing has 1600 hp next to what, 750 for the panther? I forget exactly but its not that high.

It is also faster than the normal panther (panther 5.2 jagd 5.4) faster accel (3 to 2.5) and it only rotations slightly slower than a normal panther (34 to 32)

compared to marder

3 Marder's = 1125 hp, 24 rotation, and doesn't get heavy crush nor does it bounce shots.

it's a dedicated tank hunter and is THE tank hunter basically.

[AmPM]

And its 18pop of I am sitting here being a bullet magnet for no benefit. It has to be supported by a huge amount of units, and still needs separate AT support to prevent multiple tanks circling. Its just not an efficient vehicle. Neither it, nor the Panther should be under ATG fire if you can help it.

Marders and Hetzers allow a much greater degree of flexibility, with the same tank killing power (both will tear apart a Sherman at range, the Marder will even kill a Firefly), and versus 3 Shermans 3 Marders will wreck all of them much much faster than a Jadg.

This is just explaining to Tym, not reiterating to the devs.

[Malevolence]

Jagdpanther is faster,

Max Speed  5.4  - Jagdpanther
Max Speed  6  - Marder III

can fire while moving,

Marder III - Moving Accuracy  0.5 
Jagdpanther - Moving Accuracy  0.5 

and is WAAY tougher than 3 Marders;

I'll give you that one. It can deflect AP rounds to the ASS from a 57mm.

it can also kill 2 AT guns during the same fight, where as the Marder can't even deal with 1.

The three marders* can deal with up to 3*. Admittedly so can the Jagdpanther.

I'm just telling you it's advantages.

Uh...

[Smokaz]

Reduce the population of it, sure it will be powerful but its at dedicated AT unit and its not like you will see people "spamming" and oversupplying jagds. Thats what we did to the other heavy tanks, and the jagd deserves a particulary low pop in SPITE of its effectiveness and power in its role, because unlike tigers, kts, pershings etc it is limited to engaging other armor. Puttting it on panther pop wouldnt be overpowered as you could still just charge infantry screening at guns at it. Jagd cant get close to inf because of stickies and button so there's no way a jagd wont back up from at guns outranging it behind a screen of inf.

[Mysthalin]

Jagdpanther can not get circled by multiple allied tanks except if they're M10s, as it's faster than they are, unless the jaggie is microed by a complete newb.

Marder 3 not only can not shoot while moving, mal(there is no explanation why they have a moving accuracy modifier), but it can even also use the semi-auto ATG exploit .

Marder can't even deal with 1.

If there's the slightest ammount of cover between the marder and the AT gun, the marder should usualy win as it fires faster than the ATG, and they both have equal accuracies vs each other at long range. With, or without, lockdown mode, it doesn't matter, marder is slightly better than the ATG in a slugfest.

[Demon767]

the rotation of the jags cannon is horrible, utterly horrible, it wont target a moving tank, because its to bloody slow to fire

[Schultz]

the rotation of the jags cannon is horrible, utterly horrible, it wont target a moving tank, because its to bloody slow to fire

Yeah, you have to keep it on the move, always moving it back and back. You cannot engage a tank that will try to circle strafe, by trying to stay on the line of fire. A jagd requires much more cautious and micro intensive use due to the lack of a turret. Its gun compensate at least.

[BigDick]

Marder can't even deal with 1.

If there's the slightest ammount of cover between the marder and the AT gun, the marder should usualy win as it fires faster than the ATG, and they both have equal accuracies vs each other at long range. With, or without, lockdown mode, it doesn't matter, marder is slightly better than the ATG in a slugfest.

obviously 0.52!=0.85 long range accuracy

stop spreading wrong informations

[31stPzGren]

And they can get owned by stickies. You will need 3 successful stickies for 3 marders heh.

[Mysthalin]

Bigdick, the long range accuracy modifier on 57s is 0.65, not 0.85.
Please stfu, stop derailing, and die in a fire now.

That being said, the jaggie needs a better anti-inf splash/accuracy or 14-15 popcap maximum. It's hardly more useful than a panther, really, and is just plain worthless to have.

[AmPM]

Other things that would balance it would be chrome exhaust, some flames on the sides, and a big wing!

[Baine]

i've seen lots of vetted jagd's.

Lol, what game have you been playing?
The only jagd i have seen was the one from Schultz.

[Akranadas]

There is currently 1 Jagdpanther in existence in Europe in Ruins

[Guderian]

Why get a kt when you can get 3 p4s?

[AmPM]

Because 3 p4's is 36 pop, 1 kt is 19.

3 Marders are 18pop, 1 Jadg is 17