cloaked hetzer and M18 repair

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[Groundfire]

Just kinda got bought to my attention that the hetzer is capable of cloaking then poping it's repair kit for an unmolested heal. If the hetzer is capable of doing it, then my guess is that the hellcat can do it too, only hellcat can never be decloaked if you hold it's fire.

I dont think this is right, it's broken for a tank to go invisible then to repair itself with a next to no chance of any allied or axis AT stumbling over the hidden tank to finish it off.

Here's a screen shot from a replay i have for evidence.

http://files.filefront.com/cloak+hetzer+repairdocx/;13899376;/fileinfo.html

[Unkn0wn]

You can't detect these tanks when they cloak & repair?

[Latios418]

He's talking about the fact that they can repair while cloaked in the first place. I personally don't see a problem with it.

btw groundfire, m18 is detectable while cloaked in eirr

[Groundfire]

btw groundfire, m18 is detectable while cloaked in eirr

didnt know they changed that. good.


Yeah you can detect them if you know where to look, but often times it's just another added defence to keep you from finding the tank, which at first glance doesnt look entirely fair

[Tymathee]

so what, most people move thier tanks way off the line to repair it anyway. I cloak my m18's for repair just for extra protection but i've never really needed it. Its never come down to that i'd get discovered and my tank killed if i didn't do it. So i find this to be a non-issue personally.

[Groundfire]

does it not make sense that all tanks should be visible and vunerable at the same level while preforming repairs?

If this isnt an issue for you tym, then you wouldn't object to it being changed now, right?

of course it's not a high priority of a balance change, but i can see it as something that the devs would like to be aware of if they are not already

[Latios418]

doesnt it not make sense that all tanks should be visible and vunerable at the same level while preforming repairs?

Not really. Since the Hetzer and M18 have the necessary equipment to camouflage, they should camouflage their tank while they repair instead of leaving it vulnerable. Why must all tanks be equally vulnerable when repairing? Some have special traits for a reason.

[Groundfire]

although ambush is for offensive purposes usually.

This is just an unintentional side effect of having vehicle repair kits.

why shouldnt they all be vunerable at the same level?

[Latios418]

Because not all tanks are vulnerable at the same level already. Some have MUCH better armour than others. It's just like that, only more unique. If you take away cloak while repair for this reason, make all tank armour equal while repairing...

Another unintentional side effect of repair kits is the nerfing of engineers, pioneers, and sappers, which are now all 99% useless without investing munitions. If this change were implemented, make it so that these guys get something to compensate!

[Tymathee]

does it not make sense that all tanks should be visible and vunerable at the same level while preforming repairs?

If this isnt an issue for you tym, then you wouldn't object to it being changed now, right?

of course it's not a high priority of a balance change, but i can see it as something that the devs would like to be aware of if they are not already

no, if they changed it i wouldn't' care personally. As long as it can still cloak, i'd have no problem's if they changed it so it can only repair while uncloaked.

[Groundfire]

Because not all tanks are vulnerable at the same level already. Some have MUCH better armour than others. It's just like that, only more unique. If you take away cloak while repair for this reason, make all tank armour equal while repairing...

no, they are on the same level for the fact that while a panther is repairing, it's immobile and defenseless as a sherman repairing. In both cases, one could roll up an ATG and start taking shots at the rear armor.

You cant do this with the m18 or hetzer while it's cloaked.

@tym, yeah, that's all i would ask for too. To have cloak disabled while repairs so they can get hit like anything else.

[Latios418]

no, they are on the same level for the fact that while a panther is repairing, it's immobile and defenseless as a sherman repairing. In both cases, one could roll up an ATG and start taking shots at the rear armor.

You're omitting all of the details. The Panther is NOT as defenseless as, say, a Marder. You can go up to a half-hp Marder that's repairing with anti-tank and kill it before being killed by support; that's not so with a Panther.

Not many tanks are left on the frontlines yet with no troops anywhere near them while repairing, so you can't push an at gun up behind a panther or sherman really.

I don't see the point to removing it. It's just an extra survival benefit just like a Panther's armour and hp is. A panther and a sherman are NOT equally vulnerable _overall_. You're only considering one (unrealistic) situation in which they're even. There's no reason you should remove the cloaked repairs on the basis of equal vulnerability when there's nothing close to equal vulnerability.

[Jazlizard]

I think it's silly, the whole reason that repair works the way it does is so that your tanks are both useless and vulnerable to attack while repairing.

Cloaking removes the second condition, and for the most part lets you repair wherever you can find some cover without any risk.

This doesn't change how different every tanks is in any other sense, it only makes it so that repair works the exact same way on every single unit. I think it's as fair as fair gets.

[AmPM]

Its best in all cases to just pull back to spawn then repair, that way no matter what they cannot kill your tank.

[Guderian]

With cloak you can't

1. bumrush

2. bumscout and arty

(fast enough cause you still hear the engine i think)

[Latios418]

Cloaking removes the second condition, and for the most part lets you repair wherever you can find some cover without any risk.

How is this different from somewhat behind your lines? There IS a risk involved for both. The cloak is a little faster, but why must everything be the exact fucking same?

I'm against changing this because uniformity for no reason is just shitty play. Why can't two freaking tanks have a slight advantage over others?

[stumpster]

IIRC, stealthrepairing was how AmPm lost one of his Vet3 Hetzers.  It isn't anywhere near as safe as pulling it back to spawn and repairing.

[EIRRMod]

Cloak/Repair of the M18 and Hetzer is intended.

It *breaks* the uniformity of repair for those units, while also adding a point of difference to them.

This creates more tactical decisions, and thus, more flavour to the game.

I'll just point out, that while these tanks *are* indeed stealthed, you can still hear their engines in the FOW.

[Tymathee]

Cloaking removes the second condition, and for the most part lets you repair wherever you can find some cover without any risk.

How is this different from somewhat behind your lines? There IS a risk involved for both. The cloak is a little faster, but why must everything be the exact fucking same?

I'm against changing this because uniformity for no reason is just shitty play. Why can't two freaking tanks have a slight advantage over others?

dont be so hostile dude, just calm down, its just the internetz.

[AmPM]

Cloak/Repair of the M18 and Hetzer is intended.

It *breaks* the uniformity of repair for those units, while also adding a point of difference to them.

This creates more tactical decisions, and thus, more flavour to the game.

I'll just point out, that while these tanks *are* indeed stealthed, you can still hear their engines in the FOW.

Conversation over. =)