Schijndel (6/8)

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[GarnierMcGarvey]

Wait, wasn't the problem that it's not restricted enough?   

[brn4meplz]

Really abbeville is that big? shit my map base is half that size and it's a 3v3... maybe i should re-evaluate?

[VERTIGGO]

I think adding some to the farm up north is enough as far as "constriction" and "too big" and I don't think I've seen many maps smaller than this in EIR; they mostly seem like "big" maps.

[jackmccrack]

Great map, loved it.

[Pak88mm]

good map dont fucking touch much on it. size is great it can be a small 8p. People are so fucking used to ducks narrow hallway maps this is a godsend.

[salan]

Ya definitely don't touch the map, its good!

[Scyn]

I like the map. But it will really play shitty on attack / defend vs 88s. Should really consider a build more or two on the left side. Every field is kind of like a block. One that pretty much restricts infantry to being in a specific area. Nebels will own the shit out of an advance due to the field structure.

[GarnierMcGarvey]

I'm a little confused, it seems wide open areas are good for 88s, but the restrictions allow nebels to kill infantry.  If I open up the restrictions, that will make 88s better, and if I add more restrictions, the nebels will be too good.  I'm just not sure which direction to go, with so many factors to think about.  Personally the map seems to have plenty of ways to go to get around an 88, but then again I've not seen an 88 on it yet.  To me it seems a map like tanteville with an entire half side open would be better for an 88.

[brn4meplz]

I liked the Left side the first time i played it, there wasn't too many hedges. Ultimately people are always going to bitch and moan, it's what they do. You can take some of that and bend it to your vision of how the map should be, but don't worry about pleasing everyone. You never will.

[Scyn]

Unfortunately there's no way to make it good for both. I was suggesting a few more buildings for cover purposes vs 88s. Destructible hedges don't deter 88 placement / building. Basically to me it feels like St Come Du Mont. Where one side is buildings and the other side is open field/destructible hedges. So one side is easily guarded by an 88, and the other side is easily played by support weapons.

Just a thought. I'd play it regardless whether the map changed or not.

[AmPM]

Figure it this way. Maps are made to be used to your best advantage as a player. As long as the opportunities are fairly equal of either side you are good to go.

If you want to add permanent blocks, use some groves.

Either way, some people while complain because their infantry mass horde got artied, or they didn't bring any arty to remove an 88, or the PIATs are shooting over hedges or whatnot.

Basically, make a map, have fun with it, check to see that its about the same amount of cover both ways, etc., and to hell with anyone that wants to whine. If it doesn't fit someone's idea of how the game should play they will complain, "aaah, my rangers got hit with a nebel because I blobbed them up to rush with!". It'll happen, thats why there is a nebel in the first place.

[GarnierMcGarvey]

OK I had to make it a 6/8 player map since I've had at least half a dozen requests for that.  I added one tree grove in the middle left on the hedgerow to provide permanent shot blocking cover.  I also added a small tree grove by the farm in the upper left, making it more like it's corresponding farm on the lower left, where the house itself has one side blocked in this way.

Map is uploading now for testing.

[GarnierMcGarvey]

Alright after more tests I've decided to make the ditches not as deep, the raised road not as raised, and the hedgerow bumps not as high, all for the sake of pathing.   

[dravidian]

make it a little less wide, it was huge and very easy to back cap when i played

[brn4meplz]

no the width is fine, especially if he is making it 4v4 optional. Besides you don;t want a map where support weapons can cover every possible approach, because you end up with RTC! Back capping is usually more a product of sectoring then width(as the number of sectors for the width can be an issue)

I think it's fine, i enjoy playing it. the movement is very fluid on it and you don't see many standoffs which I like

[GarnierMcGarvey]

I've done some adjustment of the town to shift it closer to the middle along with levelling out the hedges roads and ditches.  Also added six more weather options like anyone cares.   

[Lt_Apollo]

good map, of course if your teamates dont spam arty and leave the entire flank open as they make a despreate attempt to assualt the north and end up being cut off...

[VERTIGGO]

lol, sorry about that game mate...

[GarnierMcGarvey]

I've played this ~8 more times, one bug that I only saw once was a rifle squad sitting in the left corner sector for about a minute and not being able to cap it, then leaving.  I was axis and we had no units there.  But I'm not sure why this happened, as it only happened once, all other games it's been capped as normal.  I've heard that this has been noticed once or twice on other maps too.  Another niggle that I will fix is when I was shifting things around to open some hedges last update I accidentally moved two bushes into the road, lol.

I've had complaints that the map would be too good for 88s, which I can't understand because of how wide it is, there are plenty of ways to flank it, unlike the many narrow maps we already have.  And, I've never seen an 88 on it yet.  I've also had a complaint that the map is too restricted so that axis support weapons are useless, but I can't figure that one out.

I think most of the concern about how wide it is comes from a current lack of similar maps, so people are used to narrow easily defended ones.  The wider it is the less it favors campiness and defense.  I've been on several games defending and there was always one or two ways that the enemies could break through where our AT guns and support weapons couldn't cover it, sometimes couldn't even see it, which allowed for a much more fluid game with lots of flanks and counterflanks.  Conversely, in the games where I had to attack, I've found it a lot easier to find openings than on most maps.  This makes attacking not as much a drag.  And if anything, it helps make the oft-complained-about support weapon spam less useful, which I think is good.

[Nevyen]

I think thats a great approach,

it will though take some players time to adjust as they like the status-quo but i will try to play this map as much as possible.