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[Pak88mm]

Pak/arson/pvtpublc   vs Smokz/Nev/AmP

http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=other&file=lulzbagginz.rar

epic lulz for everyone involved

mass arty

mass blobs

mass falls

mass falls

mass falls

mass shermans

epic lulz chat in the end

did i just say more lulz..............lulz needless to say a great game to watch back and forth till the end heck even then i kept thinking is this lulz worth the lulz....watch and see grammar go out the door just like now.

[AmPM]

Good game, so much died.

FJ run the battlefield, infantry get sniped, sniper fails, at the end, its an epic battle. Two 2 man FJ squads and a 10% Panther vs HMG and ATG.

Who will win?

[Smokaz]

I played horrible  (But better than Neyvyen, and luckily good enough)

[Draken]

Good game, so much died.

FJ run the battlefield, infantry get sniped, sniper fails, at the end, its an epic battle. Two 2 man FJ squads and a 10% Panther vs HMG and ATG.

Who will win?

In normal circumstances falls and panther should win, one squad can get in cover second flank and panther can circle strafe atg. But I guess you said that, cuz panther and falls lost, and it was smokaz right? lol

[AmPM]

Actually, the Panther is a red herring.

[Bubz]

This is funny, fsj and luftwaffe infantry get g43s. and airbournes with bars (without suppressive fire) are considered OP. 

[AmPM]

3 bars per squad = 1.6 LMGs worth of firepower basically.

G43 = +15% or so dps over basic rifle, + slow

FG42 = much better for damage

[Bubz]

Was g43 a t4? Btw I just would have liked a little antiinfantry fire power for airbornes, like 2 bars or something purchasable not all that stuff +medikit etc., now it would the usual air superiority spam or rr's blob.

[AmPM]

Allowing them 1 bar per squad as a t2 would still be better than g43's in most cases.

You have yet to see the rape of an FJ squad with a BAR, Bren or LMG....zomg.

[gamesguy2]

Allowing them 1 bar per squad as a t2 would still be better than g43's in most cases.

You have yet to see the rape of an FJ squad with a BAR, Bren or LMG....zomg.

The FG42 is better than a bren or a BAR in every single possible way.

Was g43 a t4? Btw I just would have liked a little antiinfantry fire power for airbornes, like 2 bars or something purchasable not all that stuff +medikit etc., now it would the usual air superiority spam or rr's blob.

Its a tier 2 ability that also lets you buy G43s for 50 munitions on luftwaffe ground infantry, which is pretty powerful in of itself.  180 manpower 50 munitions 5 man squad with G43 slow.

IMO it shouldn't have slow on a 50 munitions G43 upgrade.

[Bubz]

Is really a single bar that powerful? like a lmg? Because 2 cost 80 and have suppressive fire, so we can say 1 is 40, consider it without suppressive fire...

[gamesguy2]

Is really a single bar that powerful? like a lmg? Because 2 cost 80 and have suppressive fire, so we can say 1 is 40, consider it without suppressive fire...

http://wiki.coh-stats.com/index.php?title=MG_DPS

Keep in mind those numbers are without any modifiers.  As a rule of thumb LMG/Bar/Bren all get a flat 25% dmg reduction vs infantry.  FG42 does not.  Also Bars have huge huge penalties vs soldier armor, making it terrible vs PE.

[AmPM]

A single FG42 is not better than an LMG, BAR, or Bren

A BAR does about 60% of an LMGs damage.

[gamesguy2]

A single FG42 is not better than an LMG, BAR, or Bren

A BAR does about 60% of an LMGs damage.

Bar dps vs infantry armor l/m/s: 1.533/5.069/11.385
FG42 dps vs infantry armor l/m/s:  2.075/6.09/18.12  

You were saying?

[Bubz]

Wait wait wait, so how can I explain the fact that rifles suck without suppressive fire, that two bars are 80 munitions while a single lmg is 75. There is something wrong, how many munitions would you rate a single bar -with no suppressive fire- gamesguy? Becuase according to stats and bla bla it seems uber. while it's obviusoly not.

[AmPM]

It actually is =)

As I said, when FJ pick up that BAR or Bren, you will feel the difference.

People discount the BAR as only being good with SF, its not. Its one of the few LMGs capable of firing on the move, it has good damage. You do not want to be at close range vs LMGs though. You want to be at medium range in cover.

[Mysthalin]

Actualy, the MG DPS link says that the FG42 is indeed better than both BARs and Brens.

Close range DPS's according to the link :

FG42 - 18.12 DPS
BAR - 15.18 DPS
Bren - 11.7 DPS (I lol'd rofl'd then roflmao'd)
LMG42 - 20.57 DPS

However, I'm quite reluctant to hold that as a credible link in balance discussions, because of the reason it states itself :

Note that many weapons listed below have very long cooldown or reload times, which can decrease the average damage greatly.

For instance, the LMG has 8-10 bursts before it has to reload, AFAIK. That's many a rifleman killed .

[gamesguy2]

Wait wait wait, so how can I explain the fact that rifles suck without suppressive fire, that two bars are 80 munitions while a single lmg is 75. There is something wrong, how many munitions would you rate a single bar -with no suppressive fire- gamesguy? Becuase according to stats and bla bla it seems uber. while it's obviusoly not.

The LMG is mounted on a superior platform.  Without SF, you're probably looking at volk mp40 price for two bars, so halve that is around 30 munitions each.

[Smokaz]

I would rate 60mm a tad higher now, it slaughtered a vet 3 pg squad in just a couple of hits :X

American support weapons are brutal against PE, since their health is so low.. Really.

It can be just like encountering wehr sometimes fighting americans with PE, wall of at guns and mgs.

[gamesguy2]

Actualy, the MG DPS link says that the FG42 is indeed better than both BARs and Brens.

Close range DPS's according to the link :

FG42 - 18.12 DPS
BAR - 15.18 DPS
Bren - 11.7 DPS (I lol'd rofl'd then roflmao'd)
LMG42 - 20.57 DPS

Multipled all those by 0.75 for reduced modifier vs infantry except the FG42.  The FG42 is FAR superior dps wise of all the LMG type weapons.

However, I'm quite reluctant to hold that as a credible link in balance discussions, because of the reason it states itself :

For instance, the LMG has 8-10 bursts before it has to reload, AFAIK. That's many a rifleman killed .

The relevant discussion, the FG42 vs the BAR, have very similar burst duration, cooldown, reload, and reload frequency.  

LMG has average of 7.5 bursts before reload, Bar has 7, bren has 7.5, and FG42 has 6.  Reload affects those weapons very little.    Only the quad has a super long reload that affects its dps a lot, and to a smaller extent the bren gun.

Those numbers are very much correct, although they do not take into account damage modifiers.

And yes the bren gun has pretty shitty damage.   They do well due to the high resilience of tommies.  People also fail to take into account the enormous dps increase a LT gives.  A single vet 0 LT gives a whopping 30% accuracy(and hence dps) buff to tommies.  A single vet 2 LT gives a 49% accuracy bonus plus a cooldown and reload bonus, combine it all and you end up with like 75% more dps out of bren guns with a vet 2 LT in range.