[US] T17 price reduction.

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[jackmccrack]

Currently it cost 350mp (!) and 90f (!) for a unit that dies in two shreck shots.

I and many other American players believe this is too expensive for a unit that has 175hp.

If it started with its vet 1 HP bonus, maybe things would be different.

[DuckOfDoom]

Currently it cost 350mp (!) and 90f (!) for a unit that dies in two shreck shots.

I and many other American players believe this is too expensive for a unit that has 175hp.

If it started with its vet 1 HP bonus, maybe things would be different.

This is precisely the reason I am not using t17s in my armor company. They are glass cannons at the moment because they dont get the same dodge bonuses as m8s. IF they had the same or nearly the same bonuses, or at least the ability to purchase skirts on them, I would use them again. As it is, t17 is a good way to blow 350mp out your ass. Not to mention, that for that price I would rather have 2 empty halftracks that are, laughably, more survivable then t17s and are arguably capable of doing more damage to infantry with their 50cal then a single t17 due to survivability.

[jackmccrack]

Yeah what the hell? Howcome halftracks survive multiple hits when they are a transport vehicle and the T17 blows up immediately even though it is an "armored car"?

[Piotrskivich]

It is tough I don't see what you guys are talking about.

Also a game ago I used it's stun ability to kill a 400xp king tiger. Stun + halftrack load of stickies.

It is very useful.

[Sharpshooter824]

Stun is also 75 munis.. its sort of the US version of treadbreaker except very temporary..

and yeah, I think a small HP buff would be appropriate considering its nothing like it used to be, meaning it can't stand up to tanks..

[Piotrskivich]

Don't make it stronger! It already often takes 3+ schreks to kill.

And stun is different than treadbreaker because it stops the gun AND makes the tank completely unmovable while treadbreaker usually just damaged the engine.

[Baine]

Stun is also 75 munis.. its sort of the US version of treadbreaker except very temporary..

and yeah, I think a small HP buff would be appropriate considering its nothing like it used to be, meaning it can't stand up to tanks..

It's not supposed to stand up to tanks maybe?

[Sharpshooter824]

Umm the ATHT treadbreaker can immobilize a vehicle PERMENANTLY or destroy engine PERMENANTLY if the unit is low enough HP.. the stun lasts for roughly 5 seconds and doesn't damage.. they are about equal tbh and both expensive so.. all im saying is a small HP buff for the T17 sounds good

AND also it used to be able to beat tanks.. now it fails VS pretty much anything with armor equal or above a puma.. it bounces on ACs 1/3 of the time too so.. HP buff sounds appropriate.. 

[Bubz]

Manpower cost is kinda ridiculous.
Dunno if it still rapes infantry, but with relic nerf it should get some price decrease.

[Sharpshooter824]

I personally find spending some extra munitions on M8 upgrades worth it compared to the manpower cost of the T17

and bubz, it is fine against infantry, not really rape, a single shreck squad doesn't have many problems taking one down in MY EXPERIENCES, DON'T FLAME ME DANGIT

[jackmccrack]

It is tough I don't see what you guys are talking about.

Also a game ago I used it's stun ability to kill a 400xp king tiger. Stun + halftrack load of stickies.

It is very useful.

Weird, I thought the shell wasn't strong enough to pierce KT armor but CoH-stats.com verifies that it does indeed do this. The 'penetration' value for White Phosphorus round vs. all Axis vehicles is '1'.

I stand corrected.

[stumpster]

Like I said in the latest patch thread, it got a triple nerf in the form of a damage and penetration decrease and a fix to the burst fire bug.  I do think that we're discussing some change to it currently.

[jackmccrack]

Hurrah!

[Sharpshooter824]

Considering it gets one shotted by paks, once again I would love to see a HP buff to it  

[Piotrskivich]

if the unit is low enough HP..

Stun works vs full health king tigers 100% of the time.

[spinn72]

the T17 either works or it doesnt.  It can kill a squad or 2 if you take out the AT and rush it in to gobble up the rest of the army, and it's stun can really hurt a vehicle when used as a support weapon.

I know in VCoH is gets a massive survivability increase at Vet1 and also at later vet stages, maybe do this.

Otherwise even a small HP increase i wouldn't worry about, just a price decrease will mean that everyone fields the maximum amount.

[Sharpshooter824]

So...........?

[DuckOfDoom]

I think the challenge here is to make the T17 a real alternative to an M8.

M8 inherent bonus:

- Light vehicle dodge bonus

M8 upgrades:

- skirts (survivability)
- 50cal (damage)
- mine (utility)

T17 inherent bonus

- damage bonus

T17 upgrades:

- Phosphorus round ( utility)

m8 cost : 290 mp 50 fu upgrades: 110 mu for survivability/damage, 35 for utility
t17 cost: 350mp 90 fu upgrades: 75 for utility

An m8 with a 50 cal and skirts can out damage and outlive a t17 on pure hitpoint/damage numbers and it only costs a total of 290 + 110+ 50 = 450 recourse points. A t17 only works out as a 10 point cheaper alternative (350 + 90 = 440) which has HALF the survivability and roughly a third less damage (roughly, since it cant suppress infantry like a 50cal m8 can).  So over all, resource nuances aside, for the same amount of resources m8 is a superior unit when compared to a t17.

Utility uses are also arguable - a 35 munition mine is likely to be as effective as a 75 point stun, and the effects of the 35 point mine will last permanently (not to mention that at vet2 an m8 gets an extra mine use). The stun is only potentially better, as it requires a carefully coordinated plan to pay off its own cost, where a 35 point mine is nearly ALWAYS guaranteed to pay itself off in a game, even if it only blows up a bike. Also, the m8s survivability and the nature of mine laying ensures that the m8 will live to use its ability, where the fragile nature of a t17 and the relative aggressiveness with which stun is meant to be used is leaning heavily towards the destruction of a t17 before that ability is exploited. Another words, I would rather pay 35 munitions for an ability that is nearly guaranteed to pay for itself that I can use in relative safety, rather then an ability that MIGHT pay for itself in a potentially dangerous situation.

Currently, the t17 suffers from the "gets hit by everything" stuart syndrome. If the t17 is meant to be a real alternative to an m8, then increase its health by either a purchasable upgrade (like skirts) or inherently. If the t17 is meant to be a glass cannon high damage/low hp unit, then lower its price considerably so it is an attractive option. If the t17 is meant to be a specialized vehicle pinning unit (ie a unit built around its stun ability) , then give it the dodge bonuses necessary for it to get in range and activate the ability. Right now its trying to do all 3 and is failing miserably at all of them.

[bbsmith]

YES REDUCE IT.

[Fresz1]

YES REDUCE IT.

I vote that it should be for free and u can have 20 of them not paying over supply...