Cheap Panzer Elite Crocodile Spam!!!

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[Armormave]

lately the PE have come up with their own bargain basement Crocodiles by placing pio engineers in half tracks and then running up on the traditional allied anti-armor infantry (piats, brens, bars) and toasting them. 

Now for the allies a Crocodiles costs 400 MP and 275 Fuel second in costs only to a howitzer or Shermen firefly which means u can bring 1 at best and lately i haven't seen any. 

I think its crap to charge us so much for the equivalent of what the axis are fielding in spams especially since the EIR cost of the Crocodile is far in excess of what VCOH charges which is usually 320 and 90 fuel for a crocodile. 

Essentially the PE now can field three crocodiles each for less than what it costs the allies to field one. 

[EliteGren]

Do Crocodiles get 1 shoted by At guns with AP rounds? No, Infantry Halftracks do.
Also you haven't seen Flame Engineers in Brens/Kangaroos yet.

[Armormave]

First of all, i just played a game with an AT and axis aren't stupid.  Once you spy out the AT you rush its blind spot and either toast it from behind or have the pios jump out and toast it, so your one shot solution is just 'a theory'.  If it was a real threat so many veteran axis like HighVelocity wouldn't use the "pio crocs". 

Secondly, British engineers cant field flamethrowers so what are u talking about?  And Americans have no units that can fire out of their vehicles like PE and i've been told American units cannot fire out of British kangaroos. 

All u Axis players whined when allies were using Crocodiles early on  as a counter to schrek blobs and now they are too darn expensive to field and so what do you all turn around and do - create your own Wal-mart crocs and start exploiting them especially now that the flamethrower upgrade has been lowered to like 50 munitions from 75 munitions.

You all know this is crap!

[EliteGren]

British get Armor reinforcements = Engineers
Amis get Commando reinforcements = Bren
There you have it, just wait until you see 360 Degree crocs with 3 flame engies inside.
I already saw Duck and Speigas do the Engies in Bren thing and its equally gay.

[HighVelocity]

I never had ITHT's or flame pios in my company.

[Armormave]

Well that's great if you are the General of the Army.  But I was playing with a new British player CanadianScotsman and he was playing the traditional British build with piats supported by bren and rifle grenades.  Well after two rushes by 'pio crocs' supported by a TIGER to shred off his one Cromwell he just dropped and I didn't blame him.  But that's crap.  If an Axis player wants to field a gimmick unit like that they should pay for it and understand they are risking a lot of manpower/munitions to do it.  As it is now, if you support them with any decent tank they are near unstoppable and because they are so cheap in the unlikely event you do get one shot by a well placed AT you just drive the other two or three combos you got up - all for less than the cost of one allied crocodile.

[spinn72]

Yeah Armour reinforcements give flame engies.  You can spam up to 5 squads in a Kangaroo carrier or put even 2 in a bren carrier.

I mean if you really wanted to you could throw 4 pio flamers in an IHT.

There's always a cheap way to do things.  Clown Cars are what make PE need no heavy tanks.  Just throw 2 schreks in there and you're capable of beating shermans and that, while having more mobility and more survivability and also possibly costing less pop (if your tank destroyers)

[Demon767]

You have to buy the reinforcement package to do so. PE doesnt have flammers, British doesnt have flammers.

[Dragon2008]

I avnt tried using Pios in ITHT but that wat im goin to try if it works so well
But an ITHT takes 2/3 shots to take down by ATG or any AT unlike the british churchill which takes like 7-8 hits.

[Armormave]

I stand corrected.  It was your team mate then.  Same difference.

Its hard enough to get even the veteran allied players to play the veteran axis players so when a new player gets abused by an exploit like this I don't see why anyone else would want to play them either.  

As I said, if it was a costly gimmick I wouldnt' have any problem with it.  Heck if it required some degree of skill I wouldn't have any problem with it.  But just stuffing fire-wielding pioneers in armored half tracks and driving into the middle of any infantry formation you see doesn't require any skill and as it stands now doesn't cost much to do over and over again!

[EliteGren]

by an exploit like this I don't see why anyone else would want to play them either. 

You are still 100% unwilling to realise that this is the exact same thing british and american players have been doing before already.
You wouldn't consider that an exploit?
And also no, I've used Inf HT-flame combo way back last patch and I still got alot of games, no one didn't want to play me because I used those inf hts.
Infact, they mostly always died because they ran into an AT gun and that makes them technically useless.

[Armormave]

Well if it requires reinforcements then the obvious solution is to remove the pioneers from the reinforcements like the Calliope was removed from the British reinforcements.  Heck American Infantry doctrine can't even get a Staghound (the one vehicle that could probably counter this crap effectively at a comparable cost to field) or a kangaroo through reinforcements.  

If the axis don't think this is an exploit then they shouldn't have a problem with adding either of those to our reinforcements and allowing American Rangers and Engineers to fire out of kangaroos - which they currently can't do even if your team mate fields a kangaroo.

[HighVelocity]

You just need something that is not a piat blob as AT on field when it comes.

[Unkn0wn]

Honestly though you could just package 4+ engineers in a HT, rush their lines and unload for similar effect.
You pay 430 MP, 100 Mun & 35 F (assuming you get 2 Flamethrower Pios) which is similar to the cost of a Flammenwerfer HT (which while less destructive is still somewhat sturdier) In addition when the HT explodes they will lose most of the units inside.

We probably should review the Croc's price though, the leaderboard supports my suspicion that no one really uses them anymore.

Well if it requires reinforcements then the obvious solution is to remove the pioneers from the reinforcements like the Calliope was removed from the British reinforcements.

I don't think drawing a comparison between the calliope and the flamethrower HT combos is in order, we removed all artillery pieces from reinforcement packages . Note also that there's a bren carrier available which allows americans (or british with engineer reinforcements) to pull the exact same stunt.

Heck American Infantry doctrine can't even get a Staghound (the one vehicle that could probably counter this crap effectively at a comparable cost to field)

Quads (& .30s with AP rounds) will absolutely rip IHTs apart. M8s will do the job just as well.

I can understand the frustration for newer players in regards to being unable to counter this 'new phenomenon' (The same frustration that would arise when any other 'new' unit would be used against them that they are not familiar with) but I think ultimately it has more to do with adapting to these 'new' units than with there being a certain imbalance present.

[Armormave]

by an exploit like this I don't see why anyone else would want to play them either. 

You are still 100% unwilling to realise that this is the exact same thing british and american players have been doing before already.

How is this?  Americans cannot fire out of any of their half tracks or any of the British half tracks.  As far as I know you can get a Bren carrier through reinforcements but you cant fire out of it as an American.  So why should Panzer Elite get Wehrmacht pioneers with flamethrowes and be able to fire out of PE half tracks.  

[EliteGren]

Because they CAN fire out of Bren carriers ffs.
You counter the pio flame HTs the same way you would counter Axis Flammwerfers, and you don't complain about those, do you?
Those even have 2 flamethrowers!

[Unkn0wn]

FYI .

[Baine]

Stop whining please. Crocs are way better at this, because they can crush infantry and can't get one or two shotted.
Also as stated before, bren carrier with flamers inside, same shit. And then again there were clown cars like halftruck with engies inside, driving through axis lines of defense and then unloading the bbq company.
This coin has two sides.

[AmPM]

Let us count the counters...

#1: Not blobbing all your AT in one spot, I know it may be hard for you but you don't have to move everything with 1 mouse click

#2: supporting AT

#3: Croc, it burns things out of halftracks in seconds

#4: Armored Cars, they don't die to flamethrowers....at least Brit and Ami ones don't...

#5: Bren Button + PIAT or ATG....backup with single HMG and suppress all pio's that live

[AyeSpy]

crocs = cheaper= more = fuck