Buffing Panther

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[Guderian]

Facepalm...............

[Halfling]

Buff the V1?  
If that would happen I would commit suicide.  
Buff the Mariokarts! 

[Guderian]

What is this mariocart you speak of?

[Tymathee]

Facepalm...............

+1 you must be kidding me. Even if the Panther has limited ai capability, I still see lots of axis players trying to snipe me with panthers. I see at least one or two panthers every game I play, so obviously they dont need a buff. They're fine there they are.

and to frez...if you're getting your ass handed to you by at guns, you're obviously doing something wrong, more than likely, you're one of thse people who thinks that axis heavy tanks are doom forts and dont use adequate protection with it. All heavy tanks need support, there is no end all beat all weapon in this game vcoh or eir.

[DasNoob]

I like the vet tables Smokaz, but I'm not convinced that the Panther actually needs much more then that.

[Malevolence]

Vet 1
Speed 1.2, Turret rotation rate 1.2

Vet 2
Health 1.2, Accuracy 1.2

Vet 3
Moving Accuracy Penalty removed, Damage 1.2, Range +5

I like the vet 3 idea, it'd make a Panther ace something to be feared, even if the vetless tank isn't so hot except against stubby shermans :p

The panther is a heavy tank and should NOT be compared to an Upgunned Sherman, that's just stupid.
PanzerIVs are the equivalent of upgunned shermans. Panthers are heavy tanks and have a much easier time fighting off any tank than an upgunned sherman which will even have a hard time against Stugs and hetzers.

A Panzer IV, however, is worse than an upgunned Sherman. The hierarchy of regular tanks goes

Stubby Sherman
PIV
Upgun Sherman
Panther

for Wehr vs US. It's just as apt to compare an upgunned Sherman to a Panther as it is to compare it to a P4.

At its current cost the Panther is a bargain, it's the most powerful non doctrine specific AT tank in the game that knows no equivalent on the allied side.

Two M10s.

Whining about the Panther's AI capabilities is like whining about the M10s AI capabilities. Get a Tiger/King Tiger if you want a higher health, more all-round heavy tank.

Eh, it could be a bit more multipurpose, or have a buff towards its specific purpose. Nothing as retarded as the super sniper panther, mind you, but still.



Frankly what the Panther needs is a better way to repair. It is a high armor low HP unit, so even if you use it RIGHT (front armor) you are going to be taking damage to your very low HP. The strength of the Panther was always that it was a tough tank to kill, and it repaired fast to boot. Now that the repairs are more or less gone, Panther lost one of its major advantages and nobody noticed. Buff panther repair, maybe give it those new vet tables smokaz suggested, then slap on a StuG-powered machine gun on top and we have a unit.

[Guderian]

But does not its superior range and that the fact that we should exclude the scenario of rushing into at guns?

[AmPM]

Tank Rank

Jadgpanther
Stubby
PIV/M10/STuG/Hetzer
Sherman Upgun
Panther
Tiger
Shermans/M10s from Armor company
Firefly
KT

[Unkn0wn]

for Wehr vs US. It's just as apt to compare an upgunned Sherman to a Panther as it is to compare it to a P4.

Not quite, both are medium tanks with the exact same purpose.
Also Upgunned Shermans will win versus PanzerIVs but not as convincingly as a Panther wins versus all other tanks but the pershing. As a matter of fact upgunned Shermans won't win convincingly versus anything from StuG onward.

[Raio]

what to make MCs carrying rocket launcher.

[Halfling]

The Mariokart is the Bren-Gun Carrier. 

[salan]

Guys from, I believe the one person who has a vet 3 panther, I have to say that hte panther if played correctly works very well.  You just do not use it as a lone wolf denial platform.  It needs something to help it being swarmmed (a secondary AT asset) and something to stop infantry rushes (suppression).  given those two support units a panther is golden so long as it does not leave its protective circle.

but then again thats like almost any unit.  Divide and conquer.

[AmPM]

Guys from, I believe the one person who has a vet 3 Marder, I have to say that hte Marder if played correctly works very well.  You just do not use it as a lone wolf denial platform.  It needs something to help it being swarmmed (a secondary AT asset) and something to stop infantry rushes (suppression).  given those two support units a Marder is golden so long as it does not leave its protective circle.

but then again thats like almost any unit.  Divide and conquer.

If you want to just use it as a support unit, the Marder does the same thing only better.

[salan]

you bugger, you changed panther to marder, i actually attempted to modify your post but.. meh whatever

[Guderian]

We will not stand any oppression or censoring in this forum! Nevar!

[Lt_Apollo]

panthers or fine, you cant use them. LEARN TO MICRO. the panther is one of the most micro intensive tanks and should be used as sutch.

i personaly get 3-4 tank kills with one they are also with skirts invalnrable to ranger (tested against 4 ranger squads and none ofthe zooks could even penatrate the front or side armour)

i play axis, i love playing axis. but this thread is just as pathetic as some of the allys nerf ones. the panther is fine always has, how you use it all depends on your tank micro skill.

[GarnierMcGarvey]

I think the panther is good, I use one in my company.  The only drawback with it is that it takes so long to get veterancy, so it's very hard to get good vet on it, it usually dies.

The reason it takes so long, besides having incredibly high amount of xp needed, is that it rarely kills lots of infantry like the P4 does for instance.  I've gotten P4s up to vet3 much more easily than my panther to vet2. 

If things are to be changed I am always for gradual changes so you dont go to far to the wrong side.  If the panther were allowed to be changed, I'd only suggest decreasing it's vet requirements a little bit because it rarely gets inf kills.

[brn4meplz]

Panthers are fine, they don't need more AI, they don't need more AI at vet 3. The only thing thats a bitch on them is getting them to vet 3. When i was using a Panther it would easily get me 3 or 4 tank kills in a game. And yes while the marder does better from a sit there and kill shit role the panther is more flexible because it can move and shoot omnidirectional.

There are times when you have to lead the charge with something, or execute  flank rather quickly. Marders can't perform in that role because they die to most things in a few hits. The panther performs in it's role quite effectively.

I also seem to remember posts that were complaining when it's cost got lowered. that it would to OP for it's fuel cost.

[gamesguy2]

Smokaz you use your panther like a M10, trying to crush infantry, thats why your panther fails so hard.

Use it like a firefly, not a M10.