Victor Target

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[Osprey]

Is this just for making artillery fire over normal range?

Which weapons does it apply to, mortars, howitzers? Does it have an off-map element, or is it entirely dependent on what you have on the field? If the latter, why the heck does it cost 140munis (Same as FOO for the Captain)? And why is Lt FOO 10munis more than the Captain's?

Is it just me, or did someone decide the best way to balance British artillery was to overprice everything? I'm not even sure the Captain's and Lts' FOOs are worth 140-150munis for a single use, maybe 100-120. Just seems too expensive for a weapon that more often than not misses.

[Akranadas]

Victor target makes all artillery weapons on the map fire at the point its directed at, this ignores cool downs and range. But in the EIR environment it's near useless due to you never having more than one artillery piece on the field and the long cool down it has. It not worth the doctrine choice and I would suggest to everyone playing artillery doctrine to NOT select it and just oversupply Captains with FOO instead, its much more worth it.

Artillery is priced that high because some people hate fight players who use artillery.

I just finished a 4500 word review of the artillery doctrine with my views on the doctrine and improvement that need to be done for the other developers to read over; hopefully you see some changes to the doctrine shortly.

[Baine]

Foo cost is pretty ok, it's deadly, especially with the insta suppress it has, that will keep every infantry unit in the barrage if not retreated. Not to mention it is more like a small rocket artillery.

[spinn72]

Victor Target basically gives you an Extra Priest/25 pounder barrage for free, anytime you want it, once every 5-7 minutes (i think its that) or so.

The main problem is the warning flares with it, and then generally the time taken for the barrage to come down is about 7-8 seconds.

Its great if you're going to have a captain and priest on for most of the game, but it's near useless if you don't hang your captain back a lot.

[Aggamemnon]

Hoping this unlock get's some major love, personally I think 25pdr should be lower pop so you can start doing something with this sooner. (it would go a long way in countering the inherit bad points of 25pdr).

Right now, there is next to no point in taking this without already having priest imo, as the additional mu cost along with the spent pp on the unlock totally blows back in the face of getting it. As Akra already said, you would be better spending the 50 pp getting as many captains as needed.

Also, the unlock should really lower the cost of FOO, both on captains and the newly available (with unlock) Lts. Right now it's really restrictive.
Thanks for putting the effort in Akranadas.

[Mysthalin]

Thread necro woooh!

[LuAn]

Thread necro woooh!

Mhm its just 3 weeks old

Btw what happened to Akranadas RCA Doctrine Review?

[Aggamemnon]

Should I of made a new post, when it's already been made?
It needs some love really.

Anyway, I was thinking, why not make it a SP like recon and supplies etc.
You get a certain amount of Victors, and a Certain amount of FOO, any Lt. or Captain on the map can call it in. Not sure if it's possible to do that, but it's gotta be better than having to pay 150 munitions on every Cp./Lt., after you paid the 50 pp to even get the chance to do it.

Or just add a seperate artillery to it, as well.
So it stays as it is, but you also get a supply point Arty Offmap. Weaker than FOO, but based on uses, anywhere in LOS.

Re-re-edit heh.

Just make it add free (cooldown) red smoke barrage to every cpt and lt. when you choose the power.
And allow them to buy FOO as it does now. Best compromise imo.

[VictorTarget]

The only thing RCA really needs is to get creeping barrage implemented.  That was one of its greatest strengths, and without it, a lot of the doctrine is just the same old pounding away that everyone else does.  RCA needs its special arty orders to make it powerful and able to compete in EiR.

FOO is just a stopgap.

[LuAn]

Creeping Barrage coming back would really be a start for some rca love

[Aggamemnon]

So I've tried this a bit more, and I think it would be a really worthwhile unlock, if
1. It reduced the cost of FOO all over by 25% (or added free fake smokes).
2. Victor target was free on a long cooldown. (6-10 minutes)

Right now, you may as well just get a priest, and spend PP for an extra captain or two.

My brother suggested Victor would be a good addition if you could script in using artillery in reserve (so 2 25pdrs, in your company but not on field). Unsure that could even be done but I like the idea.

Victor is heavily tied into the power of the 25pdr and priest at the moment, and isn't really justified at it's cost.

[spinn72]

Victor Target will never be free, as its then a free offmap, with the possibility of more.  it should be between 50-70 mu with the current effectiveness (which is pretty crap)

We need creeping barrage back, that kicked ass.  some more arty love would help too.  Most of the T1 and T2 doctrine abilities dont look like an implementing problem considering what they've already done, only the T3s and T4s seem quite difficult to do right now, which could be a problem if your playing RCA.

[VictorTarget]

I wouldn't complain on a reduced cost for VT, but I don't think that's a major issue.  I use it every game, myself.    It's a powerful tool, used right.  Salan knows this from when he played next to my company when we were allowed two captains.  A single priest became absolute arty supremacy.  

Creeping barrage is the real key, though.  It can devastate a support weapon line, forcing the axis powers to fight with a more fluid line, which is something that americans are better at (and british, but to a lesser extent).  It's the best linebreaker the RCA has, and will be pivotal in getting the RCA off the ground. (I know that I'm holding off on buying any T2/T3 until I know where the unlock is, just in case.)

Also- VT is NOT an offmap.  It is an augmentation of current onmap, and has the same vulnerabilities.  More, actually.  Please, don't make that mistake.  It comes from on-map units, called in by on-map units, affected by range to and from on-map units...it's not off-map.  (And if you ever want to laugh at a priest's accuracy, fire a VT from one corner of Linden to the other.  Accuracy mods at that distance are hilarious.)

DON'T YOU DAMN WELL DARE PUT MY FOO ON SP!  It's fine as it is. 

[Raio]

140mun for victor target is foolish  
almost impossible to use efectively in fight.. for that price.

even FREE it will be hard to use.
-need 10pop onmap arty
-need to bring cpt. to necessary distance
-flares dodgeable
-no effect on garrisoned units
-absolutelny stupid spread (my pries often cant hit shit even from small distance)

 who will learn to use it effectively, pls call me on 608472189. thx

[Raio]

wonderfull VictorTarget, u must blob cpts to get VT workin  
barage is dodgeable and has no effect on building i think, u must exploit the situation of moving defenses. Then this 150mun gets the point

[VictorTarget]

Nope.  I ran a company with 2 when there were no unlocks, and that was the limit, but now I run with just one.

I get by.  But I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered slipping in a second one, just for shits.

[Raio]

VT shuld be FREE abitlity, seriously. Make it 10-15minut cooldown, but make it free.
It will takes its point


   

[VictorTarget]

Then what's the point in having it?  Give me a 100 muni ability with a 5 minute cooldown over a 10 minute cooldown free ability.

Hell, I'd pay 200 munis for a 3-minute cooldown.

[Aggamemnon]

Not totally related, but may as well talk about all 4 arty units here.

Sometimes the mortar pits get extended barrage skill (click to use), and sometimes it's the direct fire (attack ground) that get's the extended range, unsure why.

Also, 25pdr refuses to fire sometimes. It aims, starts the cooldown, but won't start firing. If you stop it, it's fully recharged again, but won't always fire. Other times it's fine all game.

[Raio]

VT has very low usage for me. Its slow, excating, easily dodgeable.
  Ill take FOO rather then VT.

100muni for totaly odd situations ..
If VT free w/ large cooldown, its good skill for RCA doc. Random use.