Armor's Weaker points

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[Ununoctium]

Recently the entire doctrine was revamped - mainly nerfed.

Now some abilities.
T3-25% more health on m10 and m18. I'm soryr but having a max of 6 tanks survive one more shot give this ability a hands down fail. this should be a T1 at best. Flak 88 is T1 - why not this crap?

one point at a time

[Unkn0wn]

The flak is a T2 btw.

[Baine]

That's a pretty neat thing, especially on those tanks, they dish out good damage but usually go down fast. This is a good T3.

T3 - Scopes
Volks and Grens 10% more sight/accuracy

These T3 are on the same level of usefulness tbh.

[Mysthalin]

T2 - Mobile Warfare
10 percent more harder to hit for shermans and Pershings.

In my opinion, it's hardly worth a T2, considering Royal Engineers has a 10 percent higher accuracy ability as a T1. 10 percent less recieved damage on Light Vehicles as a T1 for the same US Armor doctrine is also about as useful.

T2 - Tungsten Tipping.
Went down from 20 percent more penetration to 15 percent more penetration.

Basicaly went down from "There was nothing better to take" to "man, I wish I never took it and now could take the calliope" from a few weeks ago.

T2 - Shoot and Scoot.
Went down from 15 percent less reload to 10 percent less reload on Shermans, M10s and M18s.
Why this was done is beyond me - maybe so it doesn't become OP when stacked with NGV(Which was already condemned as the most useless T4 in the doctrine tree)? Now it's a 5.4 reload time instead of a 5.1 reload time for shermans when with the ability. Went from "Every little bit helps" to "man, I wish I had taken Mark target".

[Baine]

T2 - Mobile Warfare
10 percent more harder to hit for shermans and Pershings.

In my opinion, it's hardly worth a T2, considering Royal Engineers has a 10 percent higher accuracy ability as a T1. 10 percent less recieved damage on Light Vehicles as a T1 for the same US Armor doctrine is also about as useful.

T2 - Tungsten Tipping.
Went down from 20 percent more penetration to 15 percent more penetration.

Basicaly went down from "There was nothing better to take" to "man, I wish I never took it and now could take the calliope" from a few weeks ago.

T2 - Shoot and Scoot.
Went down from 15 percent less reload to 10 percent less reload on Shermans, M10s and M18s.
Why this was done is beyond me - maybe so it doesn't become OP when stacked with NGV(Which was already condemned as the most useless T4 in the doctrine tree)? Now it's a 5.4 reload time instead of a 5.1 reload time for shermans when with the ability. Went from "Every little bit helps" to "man, I wish I had taken Mark target".

Actually i don't see how this is a big nerf, as those are only T2s. It's like axis trees.

[scrapking]

The number one problem with any armor doctrine ability, is that they are applied to Shermans.

There is so much manpacked AT floating around the Axis, and it is just so very effective, Shermans just have no longevity.  Upgunning them gives them some decent firepower, but they just disappear so fast.  What they really need is a skirt-like upgrade or doctrine ability to give them some real resilience to shreks, primarily.  If not across the board, certainly for Armor doctrine players.

[Ununoctium]

Ok well that's one topic discussed.

NEXT TOPIC:
Armour doc should get some ability that triples the number of stickies rifles get. (preferably infinite sticky uses)
Reasons:
Now that faust = sticky and shreck has no allied equivalent without out-of doctrine reinforcements armor is really screwed for decent AT. m18 and m10 don't survive  so they don't get vet so axis vet tanks always win.
Any decent or flukey micro will result in a failed sticky throw. and 80 munitions for 2 uses of something that can be used without going off is utter bullshit. first of all i thought the base uses was 4 but no it's 2.
shreck at 120 muni and sticky at 80. compare those 2 weapons.

[Unkn0wn]

Stickies give 3 uses, next patch it's being brought up to 4 uses again as it was before.
(For some reason they went down in uses a few patches ago) Note that infantry has an ability that gives one extra use and reduces cooldown on top of that. (Which imo actually makes it quite useful considering the current high cooldown rates.)

Fausts are also being adressed next patch as we do NOT intend for them to be able to just crit a full health tank the way they sometimes do currently.

[CrazyWR]

getting off more than 2 stickies by 1 rifle squad is next to impossible anyways, that'd be a pretty useless ability.  Anyways, I second everything Myst's posted.

[wildsolus]

stickies only give 2 right now even with veterancy.

[Guderian]

Sticky dmg engine = who ho against tanks

Faust good dmg = who ho against light vehicles

[Ununoctium]

stickies only give 2 right now even with veterancy.

yeah my vet 3 rifles lost 1 stickey to a HT that drove right past them. the throwing animation takes SO FUCKING LONG that vet 3 rifles uber stickey range don't work.
then I blow up a bike through a hedge and oh fuck no more stickeys left.

The point being argued is that armour doc needs infantry carried AT. not giving ONE faction out of 12 an AT weapon that has infinite shots is just unfair. Especially since it gets nerfs on the armoured AT bonuses.

Maybe I'm stuck on the vcoh mentality that eveyr doctrine unit should have non-doctrine counters and I'm finding the problems with americans to be they are very needy on support weapons to counter shit. and then the support weapons are inferior to the axis counterparts so the counters become ineffective.

[gamesguy2]

IMO extra armor should give M10s, M18s, and shermans a -15% received damage modifier instead, or +20% hp.

That would make it worth buying.

[Ununoctium]

IMO extra armor should give M10s, M18s, and shermans a -15% received damage modifier instead, or +20% hp.

That would make it worth buying.

there's a T2 that does -10% incoming accuracy on m10, m18, sherman, and Pershing
armour actually has no health, armour, or damage buffs

[Tymathee]

I want flank speed on all vehicles, maybe make a t2 or t3 that adds that not just on shermans...m10's, m18's, even m8's jeeps, m3's and t17's would be awesome with flank speed.

[Ununoctium]

I want flank speed on all vehicles, maybe make a t2 or t3 that adds that not just on shermans...m10's, m18's, even m8's jeeps, m3's and t17's would be awesome with flank speed.

all tanks misfire when they move fast and turret cant rotate to keep up.

[Tymathee]

I want flank speed on all vehicles, maybe make a t2 or t3 that adds that not just on shermans...m10's, m18's, even m8's jeeps, m3's and t17's would be awesome with flank speed.

all tanks misfire when they move fast and turret cant rotate to keep up.

i guess. I rarely get misfires on my m10's anymore. It mainly happens when you're doing a movement or order as its firing.

[tankspirit666]

stickies only give 2 right now even with veterancy.

Maybe I'm stuck on the vcoh mentality that eveyr doctrine unit should have non-doctrine counters and I'm finding the problems with americans to be they are very needy on support weapons to counter shit. and then the support weapons are inferior to the axis counterparts so the counters become ineffective.

So you use an Mg vs an MG....generally not a gooid idea . And against mortars... there´s still a calliope around as an armor player. :-D

[Ununoctium]

stickies only give 2 right now even with veterancy.

Maybe I'm stuck on the vcoh mentality that eveyr doctrine unit should have non-doctrine counters and I'm finding the problems with americans to be they are very needy on support weapons to counter shit. and then the support weapons are inferior to the axis counterparts so the counters become ineffective.

So you use an Mg vs an MG....generally not a gooid idea . And against mortars... there´s still a calliope around as an armor player. :-D

No... you use an mg vs mp44, but if you put those mp44 in an inf ht now you need AT to counter infantry.
Now you can't use an at gun because its countered by the inf inside and even if you kill the ht its still a net loss for you with the mg+AT.
Throw in a riflesquad and for the same pop now he has any pgren or vehicle added to the mix he still wins.
Thats because the riflemen don't have any carried AT.now throw any mixed battle scenario. fausts are longer range and have shorter launch time than stickies and the damage to the enemy is instant. so even they provide instant killing power. the sticky comes with a kill my riflemen timer and you pay a bloody 80 muni for what if you're lucky is 1 throw.

[NightRain]

Give Armored Doctorine special unlock to upgrade Shermans to Fireflys or alike that. I mean Firefly would be best idea what to give to US Armored doctorine, What else they get other than that? Calliope? Pershing? Nah Firefly would work imo. Not only as Reinforcement package but as well a doctorinal unlock maybe tier 3 ?