Ununoctium
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« on: June 27, 2009, 07:00:43 pm » |
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15% more damage and 15% less reload
ok.
3 problems
1. this sucks for a T4
2. next gen had faster turret rotation. This is important because all allied tanks misfire because their turrets cant keep up with their speed
3. 15% less reload + 10% less reload on some tanks =25% total less reload. this is ok but it still sucks because generally tanks back up and always have time to reload. CCT is way better and its a cheap unit not 100pp T4.
anyone feel free to add rant
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 My tigers get penetrated by everything. Its really really frustrating.
Your tiger is a whore |
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Illegal_Carrot
Global Moderator
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2009, 07:12:28 pm » |
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15% less reload = 30% more damage.
15% more damage + 30% more damage on all vehicles is not bad. It's better than HEAT rounds in damage-dealing, plus HEAT only affects tanks.
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Rifle87654: Give me reward points.
Brn4meplz: I'm drunk. |
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| acker
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2009, 07:15:31 pm » |
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Wait...how does 15% reload translate into 30% more dmg? That makes no sense.
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Illegal_Carrot
Global Moderator
Posts: 1068
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2009, 07:17:29 pm » |
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Wait...how does 15% reload translate into 30% more dmg? That makes no sense.
x% less reload = 2x% damage output. ie 50% less reload (aka weapon fires twice as fast) = 100% damage increase. |
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| Falcon333
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2009, 07:17:46 pm » |
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maybe he's reffering to dps?
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"Chance favors the prepared mind"
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| acker
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2009, 07:18:23 pm » |
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So vehicles don't use anything like cooldown or windup?
I'm pretty sure your math is wrong somewhere, too.
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 07:20:02 pm by acker »
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
 Posts: 2238
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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 07:18:33 pm » |
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It was originally 25% more dmg and 15% less reload, but I convinced scyn to lower it.
15% less reload is 17.6% more dmg, add that to the 15% more dmg and you get 32.6% more damage, seems fair compared to heat rounds.
Although maybe increase it to 20% more damage. I wanted just a straight 35% more damage, but the devs wanted reload for some reason. From what I understand, the reload reduction and the removal or turret rotation was a design decision.
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 07:23:45 pm by gamesguy2 »
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2009, 07:19:31 pm » |
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Wait...how does 15% reload translate into 30% more dmg? That makes no sense.
x% less reload = 2x% damage output. ie 50% less reload (aka weapon fires twice as fast) = 100% damage increase. Are you kidding me? This is like 4th grade math. 15% less reload = 1/0.85=1.176, or 17.6% more damage. |
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| acker
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« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2009, 07:21:01 pm » |
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Yeah...that's what I got when I set a hypothetical tank to 10 dmg with 10 sec reload, and changed reload to 8.5 sec.
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| SaintPauli
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« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2009, 07:23:59 pm » |
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Wait...how does 15% reload translate into 30% more dmg? That makes no sense.
x% less reload = 2x% damage output. ie 50% less reload (aka weapon fires twice as fast) = 100% damage increase. Are you kidding me? This is like 4th grade math. 15% less reload = 1/0.85=1.176, or 17.6% more damage. LOL |
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| SaintPauli
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2009, 07:26:15 pm » |
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Faster rate of fire is also more deadly against infantry since each shot kills them anyway…
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Illegal_Carrot
Global Moderator
Posts: 1068
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2009, 07:27:55 pm » |
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So vehicles don't use anything like cooldown or windup? M8 and both Sherman guns have no wind up/down. M10's gun has .8s wind up, and a 1s wind down. 15% less reload = 1/0.85=1.176, or 17.6% more damage. I just thought of 50% reduction = 100% increase, and didn't stop to think about it before I posted. Thanks for calling this out. Still comparable to HEAT Rounds, though.  |
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 07:30:17 pm by Illegal_Carrot »
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| acker
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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2009, 07:31:48 pm » |
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I thought something was funny about the M10. Thanks for the info, Carrot.
It isn't exactly a tank-killing doctrine path, though, reload does nothing for bad penetration against heavies. I would ask for a small accuracy (or range or turret turn) bonus if it's designed to be AI compared to Blitzkrieg's HEAT AT, but I don't think it's particularly unbalanced.
I'm not sure why it specifically excludes the Quad, though. Does it also exclude the T17?
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« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 07:36:54 pm by acker »
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| DuckOfDoom
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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2009, 07:37:38 pm » |
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Ah yes, lets nerf an already terrible doctrine.
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wildsolus
Donator
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2009, 07:45:18 pm » |
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yup going obm now.
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Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran Posts: 6190
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2009, 07:59:36 pm » |
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4th grade maths? oh sry mr i went to a private school, nerd.
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 Generalleutnant of The Reichs Wolves  Nevergetsputonlistguy767 |
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| Pak88mm
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2009, 08:08:21 pm » |
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i always thought with reinforcements you can get command tank and and get reload and accuracy bonus as well as LOS. If thats true then it stacks with next gen....hmmm
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Exactly.
There is only so many times you can slaughter Lt Apollo, Rocksitter, and Alwaysloseguy24 before you get bored and fall asleep.
-GamesGuy-
Most Hated player in EiR....Pak88Mm
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gamesguy2
Honoured Member
Posts: 2238
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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2009, 08:09:54 pm » |
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i always thought with reinforcements you can get command tank and and get reload and accuracy bonus as well as LOS. If thats true then it stacks with next gen....hmmm
Cmd tank doesnt give acc bonus, and they removed it from reinforcements. |
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2009, 08:10:16 pm » |
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i'd go dual racks personally. or maybe armor piercing...thta sounds interesting. any of the t4's are good i just dunno.
i know the old next gen was really good vs infantry sa the .50 cal on top used to suppress quicker than normal it was a lot better vs infantry and if you had an upgun on it plus tungsten tipping, you could really do well vs tanks.
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"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
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| Ununoctium
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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2009, 08:31:53 pm » |
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i'd go dual racks personally. or maybe armor piercing...thta sounds interesting. any of the t4's are good i just dunno.
i know the old next gen was really good vs infantry sa the .50 cal on top used to suppress quicker than normal it was a lot better vs infantry and if you had an upgun on it plus tungsten tipping, you could really do well vs tanks.
except tungsten tipping is +15% penetration and thats only for tanks not vehicles. I loved watching my m18 bounce 23 shots in a row off the front of a stug. the stug also took hits from a firefly but 5% bug and it survived the game. I just think this T4 should include some turret rotation. +20% at least. right now a flak 88 turns faster than many turrets <- no relevance i know |
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