We'll Be Back (tank repairs)

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[Mukip]

In every game against decent axis players I've had recently, the allies have run out of anti-tank, the axis have run out of infantry, and then either we outcap them with our last rifle call-ins or they overrun us with Panthers and P4's.  It's becoming routine.

My balance issue here is most tanks coming back twice, making them relatively more powerful than they used to be under the old repair system with no change in cost (aside from imo cheap repair upgrades).  It costs what, 200 munitions to give four P4's repairs?  It's pretty cheap, effective and reasonably quick. 

I feel the axis are binging on tanks thanks to the fast new repairs system whilst the allies are being forced to over-field AT in response.  I'm struggling and I consider myself a competent player, so I worry about newer players who have an average amount of AT going up against tank/repair spam companies.

Suggestions:
*Increase repair times by 50%, make tanks take 25-50% extra damage whilst doing repairs to encourage behind the lines raiding.  Slightly reduce duration of spawn buff to make attacking spawn point repairs more feasible.
or
*Increase cost of repairs for medium armour.

What I want to see if the axis players encouraged to take less repairs, or one less medium tank than they do currently and taking more infantry instead, improving the overall late-game experience instead of it coming down to allied inf vs axis tanks and the inevitable capping war.

[EIRRMod]

Coming back twice.

You *do* remember the old repair system dont you?  Where tanks were coming back MORE than twice.  With the WM repair bunker spam, multiple times.

Back then, all you needed to have as many repairs as you wanted, was a slight MP cost (or MU, if you went Rep bunker route) that would repair all vehicles indefinately (but, still took up pop to do).

ATM, Tank repairs are working well, it locks down the vehicle for *minutes* and can be finished off (unless tactically planned for).

[salan]

I was one of the biggest fanbois for the new repair system, I had a hard time with the iniquities between the allied repair and axis repair.  if anything this system has helped the allies more then the axis and brought them into the same line of recycling that you use to only see through the axis superior repair structure.

To your initial point, do you invest enough in AT if you know this is happening?

[gamesguy2]

Axis has been overrunning allies with tanks lately because they got their tank tier 4s like heat rounds and german steel.

Now that allies have tank reapers and next gen, it will be more balanced.

[EIRRMod]

Repair times.

Cos I posted in a wrong thread.

---
Light vehicles (Jeep, Quad etc) 1 minute.
Medium vehicles (Sherman, M10 etc) 2 minutes.
Heavy vehicles (Tiger, Panther, Pershing) 3 minutes.
Extra Heavy vehicles (KT, Jagd) 4 minutes.
---

Some of the heavies I might have misclassed - but it says what type they using in launcher.

[spinn72]

im pretty happy with the way it is at the moment.  The only problem is that repairs are so cheap you should always throw them on every tank you have.  Even if 50% of tanks die before you get to use their repair kits its worth it.  

I said a few weeks ago to throw a fuel cost on it because essentially youre getting an extra tank, but anyway,  the repair system is pretty good atm, maybe an experiment with a 20-30% price increase on all repair kits is needed to see what happens then.

[Mukip]

Coming back twice.

You *do* remember the old repair system dont you?  Where tanks were coming back MORE than twice.  With the WM repair bunker spam, multiple times.

The new system isn't all bad, it just needs a bit of tweaking imo.

As an airborne and mando player, I'm always dropping stuff behind the lines to kill them and egging my allies on to be aggressive and finish them off, so I'd like to see they repair times increased by 30-60 secs on some of the medium and heavy vehicles at least, because sometimes by the time I get there they are already repaired.  It can take 2 mins to organize an attack.

[gamesguy2]

Repair times.

Cos I posted in a wrong thread.

---
Light vehicles (Jeep, Quad etc) 1 minute.
Medium vehicles (Sherman, M10 etc) 2 minutes.
Heavy vehicles (Tiger, Panther, Pershing) 3 minutes.
Extra Heavy vehicles (KT, Jagd) 4 minutes.
---

Some of the heavies I might have misclassed - but it says what type they using in launcher.

If anything I think repair isn't scaling too great.

Light vehicles often get full hp or at least 66% hp from repairs.

Medium tanks get 66% hp from repairs(400/600).

Heavies get 60% hp from repairs(600/1000).

Super heavies only get 50% from repairs(1000/2000).

I'm not sure what can be done about this, or if indeed anything needs to be done about this.  It just seems a little off.

[salan]

Axis has been overrunning allies with tanks lately because they got their tank tier 4s like heat rounds and german steel.

Now that allies have tank reapers and next gen, it will be more balanced.

i fear raid assault more as a PE player.. owie!

[acker]

I really don't see a problem with the scaling. It's less as a percentage, but more in terms of actual health. As reflected in the price increases.

However, I am of the opinion that any veterancy related to +(%) health be changed to an equivalent received damage modifier, so Repair isn't partially nullified by vetted vehicles.

[gamesguy2]

However, I am of the opinion that any veterancy related to +(%) health be changed to an equivalent received damage modifier, so Repair isn't partially nullified by vetted vehicles.

This would be good.

[scrapking]

I love the new repair system.  It works beautifully.

I think the only inequity is the subject matter being repaired, and the relative amounts of AT being fielded that makes it seem "off".

A majority of Allied armor is somewhat weaker in terms of survivability, and of the most effective manpacked AT weapons on each side, RRs are only in one doctrine, but shreks are everywhere.  I think giving Infantry doctrine the ability to purchase zooks has done well to attempt to equalize this, but being doctrine specific, and well, being zooks - when the Axis can skirt and the Allies cannot...  still leaves something to be desired.  Also, the faust crit table was changed only a few days ago, and the results of that are not as present in everyone's mind as faust's behavior before the change.

The short story is, allied tanks are less survivable, and axis AT is both more prevalent, and better.  But the repair is fine.

[Tymathee]

I do agree with one thing though. They need some type of penalty if they are getting repaired, maybe reduced penetration resistance so you're not stuck shooting at the front of tiger or panther armor and bouncing shots. If you're dumb enough to park your vehicle where it can get assaulted easily, they you should pay for it.

Especially since axis at weapons generally have a higher penetration power and can go t hrough frontal armor a lot easier than allied players can vs axis armor.

[scrapking]

I do agree with one thing though. They need some type of penalty if they are getting repaired, maybe reduced penetration resistance so you're not stuck shooting at the front of tiger or panther armor and bouncing shots. If you're dumb enough to park your vehicle where it can get assaulted easily, they you should pay for it.

Especially since axis at weapons generally have a higher penetration power and can go t hrough frontal armor a lot easier than allied players can vs axis armor.

Isn't the inability to move or turn or shoot back enough of a penalty?  Why would you shoot at the frontal armor of a repairing tank?  You could just drive around to its flank and it can't even react.

The ONLY smart use of repair is to use it as though you still had repair bunkers - i.e. get to the rear with the gear and then repair.  Anywhere else is a massive risk.  Using it to remove criticals is nice - but then you're stuck until the whole repair is finished with.  (Assuming you don't have one of the "can move while repairing" doctrine abilities)

[EIRRMod]

Using it to remove criticals is nice - but then you're stuck until the whole repair is finished with.  (Assuming you don't have one of the "can move while repairing" doctrine abilities)

The repair stops once youre at full health.

Unless thats what you meant

[scrapking]

Using it to remove criticals is nice - but then you're stuck until the whole repair is finished with.  (Assuming you don't have one of the "can move while repairing" doctrine abilities)

The repair stops once youre at full health.

Unless thats what you meant

Yes.  It is.  The repair system is wonderful.

[Mysthalin]

I love the new repair system : it's more about the axis AT being better than their tanks being too easy to recycle, IMO.

I think there needs to be a few changes as to how much each kit repairs(medium changed to 600, light to 300), and it should not repair more with veterancy. Currently, a vet 2 reduced recieved damage tank will repair more than a vet 0 tank from the same ammount of HP, for some reason.

[Malevolence]

I think that they need to reinstate an alternate method of repairs in addition to this new method.

[salan]

I really don't see a problem with the scaling. It's less as a percentage, but more in terms of actual health. As reflected in the price increases.

However, I am of the opinion that any veterancy related to +(%) health be changed to an equivalent received damage modifier, so Repair isn't partially nullified by vetted vehicles.

acker when i created the current vet tables MOST of the + health was converted into +% recieved damage as a direct buff to the units.  They heal faster that way.  There were some that got +health as a difference though.

[acker]

I didn't say anything about which units had the health or dmg reduction modifiers. I just want the remaining health modifiers changed...for units with repair.

From what I can see on the Important News thingy, most of the light vehicles (US/Wehr) have health modifiers. Everything else seems to be damage modifiers, though. I just looked over it quickly, though, I might have missed something.