Decrewed weapon destruction, or combating the support spam.

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[DuckOfDoom]

Support spam is still a big problem in Eir. Attack/Defend mode aside, I think I have identified an issue that should bring support spam in line with other strategies. Alot of the time, after decrewing a mortar/hmg/at gun (at gun to a somewhat lesser extent) that is supporting the front line, it is very hard to rapidly advance to it to prevent it from being recrewed, due to distances involved and generaly unfavorable  set up (since the enemy support line will be build around cover that protects the weapons from your line of advance, not your opponents) . The reasonable thing is usually to destroy the decrewed weapon, and thats where the problem lies. Most units, especially vehicles, are really inaccurate when it comes to sighting down decrewed support weapons. This is rather stupid, because most of the time a decrewed mortar can simply tank a vehicle (by the means not getting hit) until enemy reinforcements show up, force that vehicle back and recrew the weapon. I am using vehicles as an example because most of the time vehicles are used to break through a support line, and most infantry arent armed with weapons that can deal enough damage to a support weapon quickly enough.

In the light of this, I propose that decrewed support weapons should get a 100% incoming accuracy nerf. Right now, the reliable way to kill support weapons is wait for them to pack up and kill the crew while they are relocating, because this prevents the support weapon from being dropped. This is not always viable, and its pretty stupid that you need to exploit something that is essentially a bug in the games engine to have a better chance at removing a unit from the game (referring to the actual support weapon itself, not the crew).

[Baine]

I think the system should stay as it is, and the fact that the weapon disappears when moving and getting killed is no bug but a feature, just like the weapon dropchance of lmgs/brens/schrecks etc.





Also I'd like to introduce you two of my friends:

and

[Guderian]

What the hell do you mean with the shift and enter key confusing me is not a viable option!

[NightRain]

May I introduce you to someone that is called a Blob.

This blob is only at baby Stage since it doesn't seem to have any veterancy achived yet. This blob is at level 1 since they don't have many upgrades either so its just a blob.

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/97/relic00048fv7.jpg

Now how do we stop this mean blob from getting somewhere? The answer is a gun. Not a normal gun, but a machinegun.
IF that doesn't work, we need more machineguns. And if that doesn't work...you need even more of it.

Now tell me, what do you do when this blob has Inf Doc Heavy Supplies aka Bazookas, and a commando reinforcement Ltd helping it when you are no longer allowed to have more than 2 machineguns?

The answer? Stay in the blob's good side aka play Allies.

[Aggamemnon]

Fine the way it is, axis shouldn't have a problem killing static weapons, as a lot of their infantry pack AT solutions that are good for this sort of thing.

[Guderian]

May I introduce you to someone that is called a Blob.

This blob is only at baby Stage since it doesn't seem to have any veterancy achived yet. This blob is at level 1 since they don't have many upgrades either so its just a blob.

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/97/relic00048fv7.jpg

Now how do we stop this mean blob from getting somewhere? The answer is a gun. Not a normal gun, but a machinegun.
IF that doesn't work, we need more machineguns. And if that doesn't work...you need even more of it.

Now tell me, what do you do when this blob has Inf Doc Heavy Supplies aka Bazookas, and a commando reinforcement Ltd helping it when you are no longer allowed to have more than 2 machineguns?

The answer? Stay in the blob's good side aka play Allies.

Or bring a tank or arty or a counter blob

[DuckOfDoom]

So far I havent heard a single argument as to why a vehicle cant sight down and kill a stationary unattended object.

[DuckOfDoom]

I think the system should stay as it is, and the fact that the weapon disappears when moving and getting killed is no bug but a feature, just like the weapon dropchance of lmgs/brens/schrecks etc.

You are literally an idiot if you think that the support weapon not dropping from a moving weapon team is a feature in any way.

[Baine]

I think the system should stay as it is, and the fact that the weapon disappears when moving and getting killed is no bug but a feature, just like the weapon dropchance of lmgs/brens/schrecks etc.

You are literally an idiot if you think that the support weapon not dropping from a moving weapon team is a feature in any way.

Care to explain(without further insults)?

A setup gun is already there and can be remanned, how should the system work if it became a droppable weapon, how do you imagine this? The mg suddenly setting up itself?
It's not a pickup weapon that you can take on the run. It's a weapon team.

[salan]

you guys know that if you use that attack move function your accuracy against uncrewed static weapons skyrockets.  if you attack ground function the chance to hit that static uncrewed weapons sucks.
I always do the attack move and its dead in a very reliable manner, even light arms will fire on it.

[DuckOfDoom]

A setup gun is already there and can be remanned, how should the system work if it became a droppable weapon, how do you imagine this? The mg suddenly setting up itself?
It's not a pickup weapon that you can take on the run. It's a weapon team.

Just spawn an unmanned deployable weapon (with the appropriate damage level) at the place where the last team member died, its pretty easy to code. Thats how infantry "drop" hand held weapons by the way, there is a chance it will spawn where the squad member carrying it was killed.

you guys know that if you use that attack move function your accuracy against uncrewed static weapons skyrockets.  if you attack ground function the chance to hit that static uncrewed weapons sucks.
I always do the attack move and its dead in a very reliable manner, even light arms will fire on it.

Ok I did NOT know that.

[CryingWolf]

Salan is right. Just use attack move on it (it should make the cursor change when you go over crewable weapons to a crosshair with a arrow in the top left corner)
It makes the shot hit it like EVERY time. It miss' once in a bluemoon :3

Edit:- Damn He ninjapost'd. Made me have to change my post to make sense D:

[Mgallun74]

i seem to have lost track of how to kill a static decrewed weapon, motar, hmg, atg....  do you right click on the object or what? everytime it try to knock them out only thing that shoots is the zooks, no smgs etc..?

[Baine]

A setup gun is already there and can be remanned, how should the system work if it became a droppable weapon, how do you imagine this? The mg suddenly setting up itself?
It's not a pickup weapon that you can take on the run. It's a weapon team.

Just spawn an unmanned deployable weapon (with the appropriate damage level) at the place where the last team member died, its pretty easy to code. Thats how infantry "drop" hand held weapons by the way, there is a chance it will spawn where the squad member carrying it was killed.

And that's exactly my point, because this would be ridiculous, why would the weapon somehow set itself up?
Ofcourse relic could have done that, but they didn't want to, because it is not logical. That's my point.
And yes, the attack move should work, but not for small arms on MGs/Mortars. Small arms only shoot at Paks/ATGs.

[DuckOfDoom]

A setup gun is already there and can be remanned, how should the system work if it became a droppable weapon, how do you imagine this? The mg suddenly setting up itself?
It's not a pickup weapon that you can take on the run. It's a weapon team.

Just spawn an unmanned deployable weapon (with the appropriate damage level) at the place where the last team member died, its pretty easy to code. Thats how infantry "drop" hand held weapons by the way, there is a chance it will spawn where the squad member carrying it was killed.

And that's exactly my point, because this would be ridiculous, why would the weapon somehow set itself up?

I disagree.  A recrewed hmg still suffers from some of the deployment time penalty when its recrewed (thats why it doesnt start firing right away). Thus, there is no reason why it shouldnt be dropped by an undeployed  team.

[jackmccrack]

Mgallun press A and click on the thing you want to destroy. Even vanilla rifles can do it.

[Malevolence]

If you increase accuracy against the decrewed gun, then it will remain that accurate while the gun is crewed. Oneshotting mortars every hit is not my idea of a fun time when a P4 stumbles onto my American indirect fire zone. Same for my machineguns or AT guns - if you put the AT accuracy back up, the tank will not fire properly at the crew, which is basically a reversion to the old style of "I'mma shoot the gun" tank vs at gun fight.

[Tymathee]

or you can always try and rush to recrew it and packing it up yourself and then either taking it away or allow yourself to be killed on the erun, thus denying the gun to the enemy.

[LuAn]

[Malevolence]

I've seen bigger.