The Most Useless Allied Units

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[Freek]

1.  The Howitzer

  Why it's useless- If any of your opponents have a V1 offmap (free to them, resource wise) they can instantly offmap you with a 100% success rate, removing 400mp and 160f from your game (and often 120m from a nearby triage).
  W/o vet, it justs sits there for minutes at a time doing nothing.  At vet 3, with about a minute taken off the cool down, and increased accuracy, it's much better. 
  However, vet on a howi is impossible to protect.  If you're too far from spawn, it'll either:
get offmaped while you're not looking
get vetgriefed by the first storms/falls/any thing that can outrun retreating crews (read everything)
  Build it too close to spawn, and it FUCKING BUGGS OUT, EATING YOUR HARD EARNED VET.
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=10976.msg187820;topicseen#new

How to improve it- make it mobile inbetween firing cooldowns. Or reduce cooldown (lame option)

2. Crocidile
  Why it sucks:
 It can sometimes kill axis infantry great, other times, they just turn on their medikits and ignore it, or run to a nearby road, or just seem to be fireproof. 
 It also has 0 AT ability, a regular sherman does a fine AI job, and isn't useless vs axis medium tanks (though reg. sherm sucks just as badly vs heavy tanks)
 Regular sherman can do both AI and semi-AT and is cheaper than croc

How to improve it:
 Improve the crits a bit, so full health axis inf don't take sooo long to actually start taking damage
 Make it cheaper
 Maybe add it's regular gun back (but add a price increase too)
(mix n' match as needed)

3.  Allied HMG (not-Helpfull Machine 'Gun')
 Why it sucks:
  It's suppression is practically nonexistent, I've seen KCH, volks, and Grens (w/o assault) walk right by an HMG that was shooting them.  Once they get out of its fire cone, they just gun it down.  Even if it does suppress one squad, it doesn't have much splash suppression, which leaves other axis squads free to pwn it. 
  It's damage isn't usefull either, whenever one of my rifles stumbles into an MG42 they almost ALWAY loose a man AND get suppressed.  Axis squads RARELY get suppressed OR loose a man, even after SEVERAL bursts.

 The Allied Halftrack is much more effective, imo than this piece of crap.  The HT is mobile, cheaper than the HMG, actually does some decent damage, can't be pwnzored by regular infantry w/o shreks (although, it can kind of kite shreks.)  And it can carry infantry to boot. 

How to improve it:
Significant price reduction
Significant increase in damage OR suppression (to the tune of 1 burst = 1 dead guy or suppression, imo)
(mix n' match)

[Tymathee]

Maybe you just don't know how to use them? I love howitzers there's nothing you can do to prevent them from being off-mapped if they get close enough to spot it or use MI. Most of the time I only need the howie to break mortar spam and hmg spam, other than that, it's more of an annoyance.

Crocs are great, I constantly get a lot of kills on them and had a vet 3 croc once. If you micro it well and take out paks and keep it away from schrecks they're great. They just tend ot take a lot of micro. What i like to do is keep them behind my at and other ai infantry, suppress or tank out an y anti tank i may encounter and use the croc to clean up the rest. They are also awesome late game when there's not a lot of at on the field and usually al ot of infantry. KCH and Pz Grens are really vulnerable to them and they're the best at taking out hmgs in houses and mortar crews.

HMG's you dont really use 'em for their suppression as mcuh as you use as a "keep the fawk away from here" and then you keep an eye on it to move it cuz usually there's a mortar coming down on you. If you play infantry get L&L as they get more sight and range and it makes it really good. But yea, i hate that it doesnt do as much suppression and they can just walk to the hmg, take a burst and walk out.

[Guderian]

I do agree a little with tym but i must say: A health increase for the crocodile would be nice - It seems as much endurable as the sherman

[Tymathee]

It's the same unit, same armor and health and everything, just a different gun. It's just micro intensive and you gotta baby it. I sometimes wont bring my croc out fora game or two, sometimes i go whole games without using a tank at all (inf company) i guess its just the way i play. Plus...there's always p4's and paks and schrecks on the dang field so yea.

Croc + flank speed = pak pwnage

[Baine]

Freek, feel free to play axis against Howitzer companies.

[NightRain]

I onlya gree on the HMG cost being same than MG42. Only reason I see it useful is because AP rounds but that's about it. I'd say it should be cheaper munwise and only cost alike with MG42 when AP rounds are bought.

270mp 40 mun + AP rounds 30 mun 270 mp 70 mun.

OR simply make it 250 mp and 70 mun

[Ununoctium]

I onlya gree on the HMG cost being same than MG42. Only reason I see it useful is because AP rounds but that's about it. I'd say it should be cheaper munwise and only cost alike with MG42 when AP rounds are bought.

270mp 40 mun + AP rounds 30 mun 270 mp 70 mun.

OR simply make it 250 mp and 70 mun

Why are AP rounds even so expensive?
If a vehicle repairs for 20 munitions why should I pay 30 for 2 bursts that will be fixed by 20 munitions and then kill me?
If evhicle repairs is 20 AP is 10.
I used to argue to reduce AP rounds to 20 munitions but now event hat seems unfair.

Maybe add it to Armour doctrine. God know it could use some more AT and AV

[Mysthalin]

I only agree on the HMG - it's utterly useless, and I never even buy them in any of my companies, unless I just don't have anywhere to spend some excess manpower on. They really just need to deal more suppresion, IMO.
The croc actualy costs less than the sherman, and the howitzer is pure awesome on a stick.

[Smokaz]

At least its hilariously cheap in terms of munitions now

[Tymathee]

Sherman = 395 mp and 250 fu
Croc = 400 mp and 225 fu

it's a lil less fuel but who ever uses all their fuel?

[Unkn0wn]

it's a lil less fuel but who ever uses all their fuel?

I do.

[Tymathee]

it's a lil less fuel but who ever uses all their fuel?

I do.

thats cuz um..never mind. In my inf company I rarely use much fuel, sometimes all I have is a howitzer, sometimes i'll have m10s, sometimes a sherman and croc, last time i had 3 shermans and a croc, i change it up. Its fun running a full infantry type company at times, just need more mortars and maybe a sniper, we'll see.

[Akranadas]

I remember when unknown chucked a hissy fit at me for not buying tanks.

[Unkn0wn]

I remember when unknown chucked a hissy fit at me for not buying tanks.

Yea, not spending any fuel is dumb, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.
I remember how all you had was riflemanz and you just got them all suppressed by a single HMG lmao.

[Akranadas]

I did that on purpose to draw the fire away from my many flame engineers

[Two]

I remember when unknown chucked a hissy fit at me for not buying tanks.

Yea, not spending any fuel is dumb, it's like shooting yourself in the foot.
I remember how all you had was riflemanz and you just got them all suppressed by a single HMG lmao.

Yet if we didnt have this silly availability a no tank all rifleman company could pwn

[Unkn0wn]

Even with availability, getting 1250 F and not spending it is just silly.
You're effectively handicapping your company as 1 tank has the same MP cost of 2 - 3 infantry squads but is infinitely better.

Full infantry companies would only really be viable if we were running a single resource system.
(Like Faces of War/ Men of War)

[acker]

Agree with the Howitzer and partially the Croc.

It really isn't that difficult to get LOS on anything if you are willing to spend two or three bikes (or, with the PE, one invisible Ketten), and V1s don't exactly miss. MI, of course, is foolproof.

The problem I see with the Croc is that, with a range of 20, it has to enter handheld AT range before it can do anything. The only other AI tank that has to do this is the Panzer IV (LV), but at least that thing can get skirts (and has a range of 35). So the Croc only shines if its opposition doesn't have AT or has a single pak or something. That said, the Croc is pretty cheap.

[salan]

Sherman = 395 mp and 250 fu
Croc = 400 mp and 225 fu

it's a lil less fuel but who ever uses all their fuel?

croc was 275, i did a major drop on that last patch there.. hmm it is still kinda .. meh

[Freek]

Yeah, thats my main beef w/ the Croc, a sherman basically does a better job killing infantry and vehicles, at a greater range than the croc.

Heck, I'd rather oversupply 1 more sherman than waste resources on a croc.