Hellcats were fastest tanks in WW2! 60 mph!! can we speed them up?

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[NCOIC]

So as I've posted can we speed them up? Speed is life when yer armor is crap!! Or at least let them have the sprint ability. Cloaking is a lesser thing here

[Talas]

A panther could take out 10 shermans at once by its own

Anyways, I agree that the Hellcat is a pretty odd tank, M10 is faster, more health and more armor. It's also easier to run over inf. (for those who do that!).

Hellcat on the other hand got cloak and a brutal MG, higher ROF on the main gun, right?


Conclusion, don't see it like IRL. Use it with cloak, drive bys (one shot before enemy got time to hit back, scout for it so it don't get schrecked. Bring in late game to fend of nilla grens and volks. I dunno, kekekekeke.

[AmPM]

Repeat after me....

Its not real life.

Otherwise following realism your tank would explode in one good hit.

[Malevolence]

And at these ranges a good hit would be impossible to miss, even on the move.

[LeoPhone]

it it was real, we didnt like this game at all, BECOUSE ITS WAR!!!

[NCOIC]

I kno it isn't RL. But while understand lethality isn't modeled one for one speed could be. In RL we woulda halted at first sign of contact and called in arty. Sigh...

[Malevolence]

In EiR we halt at first sign of contact and call in arty too.

Look at how realistic it is already! I think you guys are asking for too much too quickly.

[Piotrskivich]

A realistic approach to this would be to completely switch the units so basically the graphics would be switched.

[acker]

NOT REAL LIFE.

I'd address the...inaccuracies...in this thread further, but I don't want to flame anybody.

[Tymathee]

If you really wanna be realistic, Rifle Squads should be able to rip through gren squads without any upgrades, tanks would have 100 range, artillery would fire continuously until you ran out of ammo, callis would fire one barrage and then drop the rack and turn into a real sherman. We wouldn''t have pershings...tiger and king tigers would break down for on reason. Half tracks would explode from one hit from well any type of anti tank. hmgs wouldnt just supress, they'd take out entire squads, .30 cals would fire continously (because they didn't overheat as much as mg42's) snipers and storm troppers and hellcats and hetzers and etc wouldn't cloak...

[NCOIC]

SOunds like a plan!!! Everyone gets VERY conservative when lethality is ramped up. But in terms of realism it's possible to scale down things yet still keep the overall strengths/weaknesses relative. Fer instance in older flight sims PC were not strong enuff to model all aspects of flight so they made planes relative to each other. So a spit might not be as fast as an Me 109 but turned better. A P51 was fast and turned ok but not as well as an m109 yada yada.

So it still holds fer CoH. Shermans. reliable, cheaper to produce, good vs infantry, Panthers less reliable but great gun and better armor (in front) Tiger great armor great gun but slow and mechanically complicated...slow turret speed, M10 light armor but fast and ok gun, m18 fricking awesomely fast, crap armor good gun, better SA cuz open turret

It is already modeled in EIRR. I'd just want it tweaked a bit more. So don't gimme better gun but more speed, or better acceleration. And EIRR already does most of this stuff anyway.

So of course things don't need to be as lethal. Most games tone this down anyway. But within that game system things should have their relative strengths as much as possible.

And one final thing! (yay!   )

I am not expecting ANY thing that I suggest to be implemented right away and all at once. The Devs and Modders are busy people and already doing excellent work and I am in no way knocking them or their efforts, EIRR is awesome. They have to prioritize things and figure out what's doable. But i hope that when it's possible that a tweak like the Hellcat's high speed can be instituted.

NCOIC out

[Groundfire]

he's right. there is a scale to the units that's based off of RL, which the hellcat does not fall into at all.

Tigers are tough, so they are scaled in the game to be tough in comparison to shermans.

The resemblance of it being a RL hellcat stops at the model of the tank.
It should be faster than it is to put it in line as the other tanks on the scale.

[Talas]

Intresting point of view I must say, putting units in a relative manner. Yeah, really got me thinking actually...

Hmm, nice! Must of the things I bugger me on got much much smaller, thx!

[gamesguy2]

If we put units into relative positioning the hellcat would be death incarnate.

During the Ardennes offensive, 4 hellcats destroyed 30 panthers and tigers as well as 500-1000 infantry kills by themselves, stalling the advance of an entire panzer division.

People on the internet seems to think German tanks were a miracle of engineering or something, they were not, American tanks were superior in everything except size.

[AmPM]

If we put units into relative positioning the hellcat would be death incarnate.

During the Ardennes offensive, 4 hellcats destroyed 30 panthers and tigers as well as 500-1000 infantry kills by themselves, stalling the advance of an entire panzer division.

People on the internet seems to think German tanks were a miracle of engineering or something, they were not, American tanks were superior in everything except size.

We've had this discussion before, I think it came down to superior field position and training.

Sorta like the german ratios in Africa and the East Front earlier in the war.

[gamesguy2]

If we put units into relative positioning the hellcat would be death incarnate.

During the Ardennes offensive, 4 hellcats destroyed 30 panthers and tigers as well as 500-1000 infantry kills by themselves, stalling the advance of an entire panzer division.

People on the internet seems to think German tanks were a miracle of engineering or something, they were not, American tanks were superior in everything except size.

We've had this discussion before, I think it came down to superior field position and training.

Sorta like the german ratios in Africa and the East Front earlier in the war.

Having 50% of your tanks breaking down and never reaching the front lines meant your tank was a piece of shit, period.

Imagine if half your rifles didn't work in battle.

[Piotrskivich]

If we put units into relative positioning the hellcat would be death incarnate.

During the Ardennes offensive, 4 hellcats destroyed 30 panthers and tigers as well as 500-1000 infantry kills by themselves, stalling the advance of an entire panzer division.

People on the internet seems to think German tanks were a miracle of engineering or something, they were not, American tanks were superior in everything except size.

Sorry... But I believe the tiger had superior armor to any other American tank when it began to be used.... Unless superiority in armor depends on thinness.

[gamesguy2]

If we put units into relative positioning the hellcat would be death incarnate.

During the Ardennes offensive, 4 hellcats destroyed 30 panthers and tigers as well as 500-1000 infantry kills by themselves, stalling the advance of an entire panzer division.

People on the internet seems to think German tanks were a miracle of engineering or something, they were not, American tanks were superior in everything except size.

Sorry... But I believe the tiger had superior armor to any other American tank when it began to be used.... Unless superiority in armor depends on thinness.

For the cost of a tiger I can have 7 shermans.   If we take into account the tiger's horrible breakdown rate(over 50%), I will outnumber your tiger 14 to 1 at the battle.

The tiger was a piece of shit, the end.  War is not about kill ratios, its about actually winning.

[acker]

Define superior armor.

If you mean a lack of manganese, magnesium, and other important alloying agents necessary for the production of high-tensile armor plating, then the Tiger would definitely be on top, especially by 1944. If you mean the 300,000 man-hours (The Wages of Destruction) required to make a Tiger and fit on this armor, the Tiger is also on top*, right next to the Panther..

In reality, superior armor means nothing, armor is only one part of something called survivability, which is a combination of ergonomics, reliability, armor, mobility, training, and communication. If you mean survivability, then the Tiger would be somewhere near the bottom for obvious reasons.

The Tiger wasn't a piece of shit, but it surely wasn't the best idea Germany came up with. It was NOT the tank Germany needed to win the war, or even to stalemate.

*A T-34 took 3,000 man-hours, I think. A Sherman took 4,000 to 5,000.

[AmPM]

Germany really should have focused more in mid sized SPGs with high velocity weaponry.

The STuG series, Jadgpanzer and Panzerjaeger series of vehicles were very successful for their cost, and for the most part reliable.

Actually, the P4 was a fairly reliable vehicle, everything bigger was pretty much fail though.

Then again, allied tanks had their own issues, especially on the british side...