Pak/Mudkip vs Smokaz/Elitgren EPIC VALUE MENU

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[Pak88mm]

After smokaz disaster game with crimsonian vs me and mud which i must say was a shock to me and at the same time felt like a noob stomp....he gathers himself and bring elitegren out of the corner stool for some man on man action. Will smokaz get his revenge against Pak?......or will his ever bad luck against his Prison daddy Mudkip bring back haunting memories of what could have been and what hasnt been? Watch in this epic value menu the sheer madness and fear that has overtaken smokaz and that fear that unvetted airborne brings to man on verge of collapse. Oh did i forgot to mention clown cars....clown motherfucking cars.


http://www.filefront.com/14087907/smokiez.rar

[Smokaz]

No need for revenge against Pak, but against mudkipz.. there's building up quite a debt to be paid off. The thing is I have refused to gimmick or tailor my company to beat mudkipz back in all these games where I come home from night work around 8 am to find mudkipz in my game, but it's gloves off next game.. Im not gonna presume that I'm good enough to get it right in a half-sleepy state of mind. Its like 4 or 5 games now, all defeats, coming cheery home from work having made some money just to have my sleep made sour by mudkipz.

Also,I felt raped when I realized all elitegren had left was the vet 3 mortar, for a while I felt we were doing good and we killed off 250~ infantry units in this game and then I just suddenly out of nowhere I realize its GG. Again, its the airborne at the end and the mg's dying too early stops us from staying in the game. Other than that, its very predictable, they do a big infantry push 57mms for AT and then follow up with vehicle heavy populations and then with whatever they feel is needed. Its no problem at all seeing the rhytm of the game, the problem is somehow winning the attrition war. The offmaps give them a head start in this as long as I dont have any, even though elitegren's defensive rocket arty evens it out somewhat (didnt kill triage, had to finish the triage off manually).

Still a good game, well played by allies althought you cant help but notice how offmaps are integral to them winning some key engagements and removing units which can specificly help reduce the advantages of their build. Nothing wrong with that, its good play.

I personally can't help but to realize two things: 1) that PE veterancy is somewhat unepic when all those vetted infantry squads fail to beat off unvetted infantry. 2) Wirbelwinds also have paper armor, Im not sure their range is enough when facing elite infantry squads considering their poor accuracy on the move with the population nerf. You can be damn sure that PE wouldn't last 1 second if the situation was reversed and it was them with tons of unvetted units against heavy veterancy on rifles, engineers, airborne and rifles.

Again two reasons for this: 1) Other than scorched earth, PE has no healing. 2) PE is weak to flamers, grenades AND support weapons. Back in the days where PE had their health buffed they could fight american stuff 1v1 while now you have to outplay him or use all kinds of advanced tactics to beat it back. 60mm devastates PE infantry right now, and its just lucky that the mortars were taken out that early.

[DasNoob]

You guys kill me.  Honestly.  

I think what we need, is a Salan shoutcast match 1v1 muka v. smoka.


Pay-per-view, Don King promotion style.

[Mukip]

Intense match.  Both sides boot the enemy out of the town severals times only to be forced back out again in the counter attack.  It's held by both sides with MGs and mortars at various points and retaken through costly assaults.  Nice eyecandy, shoutcast worthy imo.

[Pak88mm]

the amount of vet the axis fielded compare to ours was well.......lopsided. Yet smokaz is right on PE vet on infantry its just pure shit i know this all too well. We ran amok with a bunch of unvetted units once again slamming the noobs cry of nerf vet uber alles and vet rules all. Of course i had vet 3 rangers but i did not use em that well as i wanted to. Oh the Wirbelwinds are so fail unless there is not a single AT on the field lol.

[Mukip]

The problem with the wirblewind is that it does great suppression, but most allies handheld AT can fire up or smoke and then trash the tank, it could probably use armour skirts or something as a doc unlock.

[Smokaz]

If it's not supposed to be able to tackle AT infantry, what is the purpose of the wirbelwind? To deal with anti inf infantry and nothing else? Its 10 pop for a unit which has shit armor, good supression, good damage..but in the end can only deal with infantry without zooks/rrs and no vehicles out of the jeep class.

This is EIRR, and as a general rule a unit is better the more flexible it is and the more unit types it can deal with. Whos gonna rush at you with no AT and only anti inf infantry? Mr Nobody, that is who. Its the same thing that makes panthers suck most of the time. Exellent at fighting shermans, horrible for population.

P4 has surviability and handheld AT resistance but range as a downside.. is the only selling point of the wirbel supposed to be the supression?

It needs a range increase, either tied to veterancy or hardcoded.

[Mysthalin]

Use it like you would an ostwind, not like you would a quad -.-

[gamesguy2]

Smokaz you had 2 rocket barrages(one of which failed to kill a single infantry unit despite it landing perfectly) vs 2 105 offmaps 2 strafes and 2 bombing runs.

You wanna know what the problem is?  In old EIR there was a reason you had to pick between raid assault or air superiority.  Currently you can have both airborne elite and air superiority, provided you waste enough time spamming games.

Its the pp based offmap system.

[Smokaz]

With airborne elite, ab have 41 range on their rrs.. wirbel has 40 by default. If I picked fortress europe which affects wirbel and armored cars, they would have a window of the same 5 units that non-doctrinal ab and wirbelwinds have against each other. (ABE vs FE)

Great for single shot weapons, pretty inefficient for the wirbelwind.

It would also be great to hear why airborne need 40 range. Just why they need it at all. To make 57mms redundant? In his company he has 2 57mms for AT, and he didnt use more than 1 of them before late game.

[Mukip]

Talk to me about AT when blitz players who field 4 vet 3 P4's with heat rounds and skirts are dealt with, which can fuck up 57mm's with ease.  I pretty much field my anti-tank the way I do just in case a blitz player like Wittman or Gamesguy shows up with their uber stacked P4's.  If I can barely deal with this shit with the best allied AT going, it must be hell on every other allied player who doesn't see it coming and watches a P4 rack up 40 kills in easy mode, at least AB require some semblance of micro to be effective.  If Blitz is dealt with, Airborne RR's could probably use a look at too.

[wildsolus]

i laugh at people who say offmaps are to abundant...which is true considering the 'war' has gone on for awhile now so lots of people have pp with nothing to buy but vet and..offmaps.

'people had to pick between raid assault and air superiority' ....you realize airborne elite isn't raid assault? and this isn't old eir? and axis spam rocket arty, precision strikes (blitz easy mode), and firestorm as much as allies spam their offmaps? lol

[gamesguy2]

Talk to me about AT when blitz players who field 4 vet 3 P4's with heat rounds and skirts are dealt with, which can fuck up 57mm's with ease.  I pretty much field my anti-tank the way I do just in case a blitz player like Wittman or Gamesguy shows up with their uber stacked P4's.  If I can barely deal with this shit with the best allied AT going, it must be hell on every other allied player who doesn't see it coming and watches a P4 rack up 40 kills in easy mode, at least AB require some semblance of micro to be effective.  If Blitz is dealt with, Airborne RR's could probably use a look at too.

I dont have heat rounds, I dont even have a single tier 3.  So yes, you are losing 40 infantry to a single p4 without any buffs other than improved barrels.

I've ran an airborne company in 005, it was hilariously easy to annilate all armor, and thats without airborne elite.   Although having a triage helped quite a bit.

'people had to pick between raid assault and air superiority' ....you realize airborne elite isn't raid assault? and this isn't old eir? and axis spam rocket arty, precision strikes (blitz easy mode), and firestorm as much as allies spam their offmaps? lol

Are you blind?  Did you fail to read the part where I said you can now have both airborne elite and air superiority?   Airborne elite is very good because you cannot be kited by a lot of tanks(especially ostwind).

Rocket arty/precision is nowhere near as deadly as strafe/bomb.    In this thread's replay there were two rocket arty barrages.  The first failed to kill the mortar it was dropped on and the second failed to kill the triage it was dropped on.

[CrazyWR]

rocket arty = anti-tank...not anti-infantry...it does next to nothing besides suppress infantry...

[Mukip]

I dont have heat rounds, I dont even have a single tier 3.  So yes, you are losing 40 infantry to a single p4 without any buffs other than improved barrels.

Vet and improved barrels gives them +10 range, which is a serious buff regardless.  I just love watching these P4's go up against hapless Brit players and trashing their Fireflies.

Smokaz you had 2 rocket barrages(one of which failed to kill a single infantry unit despite it landing perfectly)

This is also bending the truth a bit.  The rocket arty reduced two squads of rifles to below useable fighting strength and left them pinned, which is killing them for all intents and purposes. 

[gamesguy2]

Vet and improved barrels gives them +10 range, which is a serious buff regardless.  I just love watching these P4's go up against hapless Brit players and trashing their Fireflies.

Without heat rounds you aren't trashing anything.  I routinely bounce off shermans.

And Brits rape P4s with piats, the only doctrine with a problem with the P4s is armor, which owes to armor being crap.

This is also bending the truth a bit.  The rocket arty reduced two squads of rifles to below useable fighting strength and left them pinned, which is killing them for all intents and purposes. 

It was dropped on the mortar, which is far more valuable than some random rifles, it failed to kill the mortar sitting in the exact center of the barrage.

Also its fairly hilarious how much better FOO is compared to officer arty.   Especially since officer arty is a doctrine unlock and cost more.

[BigDick]

vet give a sherman or cromwell +5 range too where is your point?

i did not watched the replay yet (will do it later) but the main problem fighting airborne is fighting by far the best handheld AT in the game that got price decreased from 220mun in EiR to 165mun currently thats 1/3 off

and with introducing the PE (i expect smokaz being PE) they got a vehicle based faction without real suppression into the mod that is in vCOH useful because of fast/flexible way of teching...

in EiR is no teching.. => PE=Fail, PE vs AT heavy companys = more Fail, PE vs mobile AT Companys = epic Fail

[Mukip]

It was dropped on the mortar, which is far more valuable than some random rifles, it failed to kill the mortar sitting in the exact center of the barrage.

And?  A bombing run bomb landed almost directly on an MG42 guy and missed him, strafes often fail to kill anything aside from causing pinning which I accept without complaint.  I've had bombing runs miss immobile, repairing tanks with all 3 bomb shots that visually hit, you just have to go with the dice rolls.

[Smokaz]

p4 heat rounds doesnt rape 57mms or make the fight equal between them if both are vet 3. 41 range ab are raping counters to them.

with bars you can supress them from pretty far away, its a easy solution to storms

As for strafe, Im not gonna even bother walking into a discussion on how instant pin of all "hit" infantry squads with zero to little warning is freaking awesome, its a win-button

Honestly

[Demon767]

p4 heat rounds doesnt rape 57mms or make the fight equal between them if both are vet 3. 41 range ab are raping counters to them.

with bars you can supress them from pretty far away, its a easy solution to storms

As for strafe, Im not gonna even bother walking into a discussion on how instant pin of all "hit" infantry squads with zero to little warning is freaking awesome, its a win-button

Honestly

+1