No Zeal for britts if no Zeal for KCH

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[CrazyWR]

well thats fun...

[Mukip]

Want saintpauli to come in here and verify how I killed 2 mp40 volks and a KCH with one squad of unvetted commandos?

Want me to bring in some other dude and verify some anecdotal counter-point?  So some Commandos in the hands of a good player and in no doubt ideal conditions killed a lot of stuff, great.

What's the point of all this anyway, is the arguement here that KCH should get zeal back just so they can beat Commando or what?

[gamesguy2]

Want saintpauli to come in here and verify how I killed 2 mp40 volks and a KCH with one squad of unvetted commandos?

Want me to bring in some other dude and verify some anecdotal counter-point?  So some Commandos in the hands of a good player and in no doubt ideal conditions killed a lot of stuff, great.

I already posted the numbers on page 2, and your counter rebuttal continue to be "its not OP because I say so".  Despite the overwhelming evidence that commandos are vastly superior to KCH, even 4 man KCH.

Four man KCH squads, tier 3 unlock that costs more than commandos, lose to commandos, a tier 0 unlock.

Thats really balanced.

[Mukip]

But why is the measure of balance whether KCH beat Commandos or not?

[gamesguy2]

But why is the measure of balance whether KCH beat Commandos or not?

Both are doctrinal(4 man KCH) assault infantry.  The comparison is very much valid.

[FailHammer]

KCH are kinda fragile if you think about it. a 3 man squad. the battle effectiveness is really only 4/3/2 guys. Even with 2 guys you are gonna watch their health and want to retreat them once they get stuck in. Its that way with all axis infantry. Such that zeal only affects KCH after losing one man but losing two prob get off field, so zeal doesnt matter except for the retreat. Commandos rape shit especially with smoke. They zeal effecively for an additional man.
+1 to all the smoke, nade etc shit.
+1 to KCH getting zeal and mandos not, not gonna be huge for the KCH anyways, practically it will increase the survivability and not much else.

[Mukip]

They are fragile.  They lose to bar rifles (hell even regular rifles if you are unlucky), they lose to bren tommies, no surprise they lose to mandos.

[Rocksitter]

 I think the question is why are the KCH for the price and the unlock just not up to par as far as Elite infantry go...

 

[Mukip]

I just think it's tunnel vision to say "KCH don't beat Commandos therefore it's imba".  Most of this thread is just arguing small points with no overall conclusion. 

As for the thread title, Tommies get Zeal but Commandos don't, Grenadiers get Zeal but KCH don't so it's broadly equivalent atm.  Commandos may be better than KCH, but a Commando army tends to be smaller so Zeal for Wehr Terror will probably affect more squads.  I don't think giving zeal to Commandos or KCH would affect balance much in the end either.  Commando will still do well in good situations and fail in bad ones and so will KCH.  I'd still use a tank to kill them.

[Mysthalin]

*sigh*

Commandos would only gain the zeal benefits when they're down to 3 men, gaining something like 5 percent less recieved accuracy, cba looking it up.
4 man KCH squads will gain the exact same benefits as commandos - they'll lose one man, they'll get the same miniscule bonus.

I find hillarious the comparison where the guy mentions one guy dead from each squad - protip, 4 man commando squads are much less powerful than 6 man squads.

KCH will lose men less often than the commandos will, as the commandos have lesser health per man, with lesser accuracy and damage per shot on their guns, meaning the fighting capability of the commando squad will go down relatively much faster than the KCH squad. Just pure DPS vs Health of both squads number crunching is wrong in this case. There is a lot of variables to take in - such as the KCH refusal to lose a man till they're down to 5 HP, or the commandos maybe or maybe not having smoke usable, and a nade on them.

You can NOT have multiple healing stations - I have tried it with my brits, you can only build one, the other one dissapears from your use list.

Zeal will be much less potent on commandos than on KCH, actualy, due to the fact that the commando's health per man is much lesser than the KCH health per man. If KCH don't get zeal, neither do commandos. If KCH get zeal, so do commandos.

On a side note, I do believe that mudkip is right - gamesguy should stop throwing ad hominem's for once, and should learn to discuss without constantly insulting the person he's talking with. In fact, my personal view is that he should recieve a two-day ban to finally learn that freedom of speech is one freedom that has to be taken in moderation. No matter how smart you sound, or how self-righteous you are, constantly posting in an inflamatory manner should be punishable, IMO.

[Baine]

Seriously, to be worth it you would have to fight with a 2 man or even 1 man commando squad. Nobody would do that, they would get pwned by pios.

[Atlanton]

Seriously, to be worth it you would have to fight with a 2 man or even 1 man commando squad. Nobody would do that, they would get pwned by pios.

inb4 "I killed 2 pioneers and a flame pioneer squad with a 1 man commando squad"


 

[Smokaz]

jah, cause das bist very easy to kill of the last lmg guy with a flame squad

10pps the last guy of a lmg squad will beat a full health engineer squad every time, with zeal

[Talas]

First off, it's odd to compare those units without the whole perspective. Axis tend to have an upper hand in mid-range and longrange so I don't see any problem if mandos got an egde in close quarters. Factions got their strenghts and weaknesses and Wehrmacht isn't that strong in close combat. MP40:s get beaten the shit out from rifles if not done properly, which goes with the whole faction.

And for Zeal, brits blobs as it is. If you kill of some men with mg:s or antyhing the blob get stronger. And for KCH, I don't know, Zeal is fluffy on KCH but just makes them earn vet. easier due to survivabilty.

[boobaka]

well as said before kch zeal start at 2 man not 3 and the main problem here is the zeal for britts blob