Elite Infantry way too many!

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[cobol]

Ok this discussion has began already in the reinforcements package thread, but i think its not only a problem of the reinforcements package. All elite infantry, axis and allies should be fixed on max 4 squads or maybe 5 without the pssibility to have some in supply or to oversupply them.
There are really many players who have a company which are nearly consists only of elite infantry. (i.e. 8-10 Ab squads or 8-10 storm squads). They maybe cost more then regular inf but with the advantages you still can field a whole army of them.
This shouldnt be, its not some covert ops game or so.

[BradAnderson]

I dont see the problem with it, i mean atm if you run a 10storm company your downright retarded. But in my perspective EiR was always about the company and the many different strats you could come up with, but now it seems its settled down too bland and boring and the expected each game....

[Two]

yeah, as axis you expect 200ab squads, as allies your expect either support weapon spam or heavy tank spam

[Malevolence]

I dont see the problem with it, i mean atm if you run a 10storm company your downright retarded. But in my perspective EiR was always about the company and the many different strats you could come up with, but now it seems its settled down too bland and boring and the expected each game....

That's the problem with balance stemming from uniformity i.e. availability. It keeps the game much more under control on one hand, but on the other hand it keeps the game much more under control.

[Bubz]

Uhm, wehrmacht has grenadiers, which are stronger than normal infantry without being considered elite infantry, on the u.s. side more elite infantry helps to even the gap between these units.
Unless you considered grens as elite infantry, I woudn't agree.

[cobol]

Uhm tommys with brens are as strong as grens i think, maybe us lacks in this kind but they have the bar which can supress infantry very fast and you jsut need to press a hotkey for it.
And Grens are strong but u can outnumber them with us line infantry.
Atm it is i think really bad with this huge amount of elite infantry which nearly everyone has.
And yes you really expect a shit load of elite and heavy tanks atm.



 

[gamesguy2]

Uhm, wehrmacht has grenadiers, which are stronger than normal infantry without being considered elite infantry, on the u.s. side more elite infantry helps to even the gap between these units.
Unless you considered grens as elite infantry, I woudn't agree.

Grenadiers are in no way stronger than normal infantry.

Rifles with bars beat grens with LMGs, tommies with brens at least on par if not better, and sappers with piats are better AT than shreked grens.

[Bubz]

Already told you u.s. needs elite infantry to even that gap between the better grenadiers and the riflemen, it's the way they are designed, they need that little 2-3 more squads of elite infantry.
Brens has nothing to do with americans.
But to be honest, devs have already applied downsides to companies fully equipped with elite infantry.

Obviuosly it's easier to fight rifles then elite infantry, even if the former come in greater number.

@gamesguy how can you consider grenadiers on par with rifles?

[Ununoctium]

Grenadiers are in no way stronger than normal infantry.

Rifles with bars beat grens with LMGs, tommies with brens at least on par if not better, and sappers with piats are better AT than shreked grens.

yeah but you noticed you made no reference to American AT capabilities without Elite Inf.
Stickys don't count as a significant AT damage weapon.

As for grens vs rifles.
Part of the grens MP cost was their massive weapon carrying abilities with 2 slots.
now that they only have 1 slot maybe a price reduction is in order? - 5 or 10 manpower.

[CafeMilani]

Uhm, wehrmacht has grenadiers, which are stronger than normal infantry without being considered elite infantry, on the u.s. side more elite infantry helps to even the gap between these units.
Unless you considered grens as elite infantry, I woudn't agree.

Grenadiers are in no way stronger than normal infantry.

Rifles with bars beat grens with LMGs, tommies with brens at least on par if not better, and sappers with piats are better AT than shreked grens.

brens are much better.

gamesguy is right, he has extremely good inf micro skills.

[Tymathee]

Both sides spam elite infantry. All factions, but allies tend to spam their infnatry more often cuz thats the best thing we've got, and the axis spam heavies. Last game I fought again a 2 jagds, a kt and a tiger, you'll rarely see more than maybe 2 pershings in one game if ever. I should make a thread called "Heavy Tanks, Way Too Many!" cuz all I see lately is axis heavy tanks, its just insane.

[Armfelt]

Just take a look on the Airbourne leaderboard, it´s hilarious if you compare it with other units!

Infantry is also easier to retreat and keep in doctrine in difference of vehicles, though tanks can often make more damage.

As I see it, the biggest problem is that vehicles are more easy to gank than infantry. Perhaps a "bail out/unload" button should be implemented, so the drivers can run away? If tanks were made as a halftrack, that can carry the crew of 3-5 men. These men are needed for the tank to move and fire. And they are also the one that gain vet.

I don´t know how tricky it would be but it would be a fine ability.

But yet again yes there are a bit too much Elite units (both tanks and infantry) on the field.

Ps. Perhaps cut down the availability of "elites" and give more weapon choices to the "basics"?

[CafeMilani]

Grenadiers are in no way stronger than normal infantry.

Rifles with bars beat grens with LMGs, tommies with brens at least on par if not better, and sappers with piats are better AT than shreked grens.

yeah but you noticed you made no reference to American AT capabilities without Elite Inf.
Stickys don't count as a significant AT damage weapon.

ATguns.
work perfectly in every case alone

thge counterpart, the pak doesnt becaus eof its crappy penetrations and dmg.
thats why u need schrecks but they are expensive

just put 4 atgs in your company and ull be fine

[acker]

ATguns.
work perfectly in every case alone

thge counterpart, the pak doesnt becaus eof its crappy penetrations and dmg.
thats why u need schrecks but they are expensive

just put 4 atgs in your company and ull be fine

You do realize that the Pak reloads quickly enough that doing the AT-gun move exploit reduces its DPS? That cannot be said of the 57mm. Pak also gets better penetration than the 57mm overall, and gets perfect penetration with the first shot. There's a reason why the Pak costs more.

[Bubz]

Thing is, everything has a downside. PP cost of oversupplied units is one of those.

By the way, I would like to see those 10 elite infantry companies of stormies, rangers etc. the current sistem is kinda balanced, with probably some changes, two's company had lots of mandos but iirc he had no atguns.

We can even talk about the limited variety of american units and the boredom of this, the game is nice because it varies.

PS: Why are we suddenly talking about atguns? <.<

[Ununoctium]

ATguns.
work perfectly in every case alone

thge counterpart, the pak doesnt becaus eof its crappy penetrations and dmg.
thats why u need schrecks but they are expensive

just put 4 atgs in your company and ull be fine

When was the last time you saw a pak shot bounce?

Cuz i only see it bounce 20% of the time vs Pershing and never vs anything else.

[EliteGren]

Have you tried to kill hedges with paks? Those things are being penetrated less by paks than any allied armor!

[cobol]

ok tymathee do a thread with your topic. i never said that only allies would spam elite.
and if you dont have anything to ad to this topic, just to cry, plz read another thread or so.
and yes i think the kt dont need any oversupply option too.
and btw. bubz i never said it is a bad mod, i really like this mod and i just want to say my opinion on some game mechanics and so on. i

I just want to point out that there should be other ways then field a huge amount of elite infantry. give more upgrade choices to normal infantry or so.

[gamesguy2]

ATguns.
work perfectly in every case alone

thge counterpart, the pak doesnt becaus eof its crappy penetrations and dmg.
thats why u need schrecks but they are expensive

just put 4 atgs in your company and ull be fine

When was the last time you saw a pak shot bounce?

Cuz i only see it bounce 20% of the time vs Pershing and never vs anything else.

Paks have similar penetration to the 57mm, the main thing is the pak will always penetrate on the first shot, hence why it costs more.

[Demon767]

No no no to all those who say, allies can only win if they spam elite infantry, you are wrong

to prove this fact, my brit account has 12/7 W/L, not one elite infantry in it, and its bloody artillery doctrine, and i won before the patchs came out to make that doctrine pretty awesome.

there is no excuse that you can come up with to stop the fact. Elite infantry are soppose to be elite and not out number the regulars, and if you think that allies only stand a chance if they field elite infantry is..

1. you are those people who just spam elite infantry and lose half the time
2. you play style sucks and you rely to much on elite infantry as a win button

make it 4 availability.