Elite Infantry way too many!

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[Tymathee]

ok tymathee do a thread with your topic. i never said that only allies would spam elite.
and if you dont have anything to ad to this topic, just to cry, plz read another thread or so.
and yes i think the kt dont need any oversupply option too.
and btw. bubz i never said it is a bad mod, i really like this mod and i just want to say my opinion on some game mechanics and so on. i

I just want to point out that there should be other ways then field a huge amount of elite infantry. give more upgrade choices to normal infantry or so.

I'm not crying, all I'm sa ying is that there's spam of all kinds. I've went up against spam on both sides. There's a lot of takn spam on the axis side more often and infantry spam on the allied side more often, although both sides do it. I light vehicle spam in both my pe and armor accounts, it's what's effective and i'm good at using it. Some people are just good with certain units and builds. I think if someone wants to use that extra PP to spam elite infantry, let them. I know I myself don't, I have my 4 rangers and that's it, but someone else might want 10, that's a ton of PP. The system in place causes everyone to not be able to spam units and you get penalized for doing so with the PP loss.

[Demon767]

tym, just because axis do it aswell doesnt make it right, we all do it, its just about time it was changed.

[Rocksitter]

 Elite infantry should be in short supply the same with heavy tanks like the Pershing KT etc...

 Maybe no oversupply on certain elite type units..

[Illegal_Carrot]

Maybe no oversupply on certain elite type units..

These are my sentiments exactly.
Elite inf should be few and far in between, yet also be a vital part of a battalion. They should be called on rarely, only when needed, but be very effective at what they do.
As it is now, though, they just get oversupplied by highly leveled players, and thrown around like toys.

[pqumsieh]

in reference to vcoh, allies tend to rely more on elite infantry then axis. More specifically, US is more reliant on elite infantry then any other doctrine. Wouldnt reducing their availability impact US players the most? How many is too many? I think 4 in supply and 2 in oversupply might be ok, but limiting it to just 4 will hurt many US players who cant easily oversupply due to the fact that they need those PP's for doctrine/resource unlocks.

Any thoughts on this point?

PQ

[LuAn]

I kinda agree with pqumsieh US has to rely on its elite infantry for handheld at

On a side note: Commandos already are on 4/2 supply, Piat Commandos 3/2

[Demon767]

even though its 4/2 you can still buy more, and thats what makes games boring playing against companies with 12 elite inf.

Can i ask why allies relie on elite inf more than axis PQ, what does axis have that allies dont have?

[LuAn]

Panzershrek on grenadiers.

Also more america than brits, brits dont rely on elite infantry that much, we have piats(on a very expensive platform)

[Tymathee]

in reference to vcoh, allies tend to rely more on elite infantry then axis. More specifically, US is more reliant on elite infantry then any other doctrine. Wouldnt reducing their availability impact US players the most? How many is too many? I think 4 in supply and 2 in oversupply might be ok, but limiting it to just 4 will hurt many US players who cant easily oversupply due to the fact that they need those PP's for doctrine/resource unlocks.

Any thoughts on this point?

PQ

+1, I kinda said that. Allies rely more on infantry than axis do, so thats the reason why they use 'em more. At guns are too easy to circle strafe and allied tanks are no match for axis tanks, so you wanna take away thte only thing that really gives us a chance?

[Tymathee]

even though its 4/2 you can still buy more, and thats what makes games boring playing against companies with 12 elite inf.

Can i ask why allies relie on elite inf more than axis PQ, what does axis have that allies dont have?

axis have better tanks...? That's why allies rely on them more, more specifically to counter their tanks.

[fallensoldier7]

True US lacks non-doctrine handheld riflemen AT, but usually you'll always have at least 1 AT gun and/or 1 tank on the field.  I know I make a point of having 1 AT gun and/or 1 sherman on the field at all times.  Usually my AT guns won't get circlestrafed (which shouldn't happen in the first place unless you get bumrushed by 2-3 tanks or you don't put infantry in front of your AT guns), but if I do make a mistake in my AT gun placement then I'll have a sherman to block the tank so my AT gun can be placed correctly or just have the sherman take care of the threat entirely.

Btw tym cobol doesn't want to take elite infantry away entirely.  4 is plenty.  I have one squad of vet 3 rangers in my entire infantry company and I do fine with my company.  He's not taking away the "only thing that gives you a chance," he's just making it so you can't spam something that's not meant to be spammed in the first place.  If you use your elite infantry correctly (and you've got 4 squads of them) then you could have at least 1 squad on the field for the entire game, which is sufficient handheld AT to ward off anything that manages to get by your AT guns.

[Tymathee]

I know what he wants, he wants to limit them. But what I'm trying to say is that there's already a limiting device in. If they want more than 4, they've gotta pay up, which takes away from their PP and if they keep them alive, they gain vet, which means they gotta spend SP and elite inf vet costs a lot, so then you gotta spend more PP to get more SP.

[Illegal_Carrot]

I know what he wants, he wants to limit them. But what I'm trying to say is that there's already a limiting device in. If they want more than 4, they've gotta pay up, which takes away from their PP and if they keep them alive, they gain vet, which means they gotta spend SP and elite inf vet costs a lot, so then you gotta spend more PP to get more SP.

All this does is further the gap between high level players wit PP to spare, and newer players who need to spend their PPs elsewhere. I realize that higher level players need something to spend their PPs on after they unlock everything, but I don't see allowing them to replace a large majority of their battalion with elite infantry as a reasonable solution.

[fallensoldier7]

I know what he wants, he wants to limit them. But what I'm trying to say is that there's already a limiting device in. If they want more than 4, they've gotta pay up, which takes away from their PP and if they keep them alive, they gain vet, which means they gotta spend SP and elite inf vet costs a lot, so then you gotta spend more PP to get more SP.

All this does is further the gap between high level players wit PP to spare, and newer players who need to spend their PPs elsewhere. I realize that higher level players need something to spend their PPs on after they unlock everything, but I don't see allowing them to replace a large majority of their battalion with elite infantry as a reasonable solution.

+1

[Smokaz]

You dont need handheld AT, its very nice to have and a perk but its 100% possible to be equally successful without it. Mines, vehicle blocking and clever unit type deployment allow you to survive just fine without it. I dont have any rangers in my infantry company, and only 2 squads of piat commandos for low-pop at callins.

Armor doctrines running around with airborne takes away a intended downside of your greatly improved/suported american vehicles/tanks. Unless all things are equal, balance is about weaknesses and strengths being measured against each other. When flank speed tungsten shermans with moving/firing repair get supported by airborne.. it just gets ugly. Mix in 1 mg/bar supression to make zerg infantry rushes against tanks impossible and kiting a ease.. what else would you need really.  Airborne is used as an example here because they are the best allied handheld AT.

Armor also gets buffed jeeps, and jeeps are amazing when mixed into your army. Few units can hit them, they block tanks they push infantry.. if you have ever been on the receiving end of jeep tactics you probably know exactly how frustrating it can be to face  a guy who knows how to abuse the hell out of the jeep.

Wehrmacht even gets the 2 pop swimwagon.. afaik this thing has push.

[sgMisten]

Last I checked, elite infantry and their upgrades are most expensive than regular infantry and their upgrades.

This was the same in old EiR where you could have 20+ AB companies and 10+ stormie companies and those still got beaten by cost effectiveness.

[Rocksitter]

I know what he wants, he wants to limit them. But what I'm trying to say is that there's already a limiting device in. If they want more than 4, they've gotta pay up, which takes away from their PP and if they keep them alive, they gain vet, which means they gotta spend SP and elite inf vet costs a lot, so then you gotta spend more PP to get more SP.

 Yes they do have something in place to prevent spaming elite infantry but this is a beta and things are not set in stone so stop acting like this is a final product .
 Its obvious that elite infantry are being abused no one is being one sided its all elite infantry and has I stated and you stated heavy Tanks availability might need to be looked at as well...

 

[Demon767]

You dont need handheld AT, its very nice to have and a perk but its 100% possible to be equally successful without it. Mines, vehicle blocking and clever unit type deployment allow you to survive just fine without it. I dont have any rangers in my infantry company, and only 2 squads of piat commandos for low-pop at callins.

Armor doctrines running around with airborne takes away a intended downside of your greatly improved/suported american vehicles/tanks. Unless all things are equal, balance is about weaknesses and strengths being measured against each other. When flank speed tungsten shermans with moving/firing repair get supported by airborne.. it just gets ugly. Mix in 1 mg/bar supression to make zerg infantry rushes against tanks impossible and kiting a ease.. what else would you need really.  Airborne is used as an example here because they are the best allied handheld AT.

Armor also gets buffed jeeps, and jeeps are amazing when mixed into your army. Few units can hit them, they block tanks they push infantry.. if you have ever been on the receiving end of jeep tactics you probably know exactly how frustrating it can be to face  a guy who knows how to abuse the hell out of the jeep.

Wehrmacht even gets the 2 pop swimwagon.. afaik this thing has push.

+1

[SaintPauli]

I have 252 extra PPs and I’m not oversupplying on storms. Why? Because a dual schreck storm cost 305MU and MP44 are even more cost ineffective. If there is anyone here who is oversupplying on storms then please say so…

Fact of the matter is that allied handheld AT is horribly under priced in comparison to axis. As long as the strategy is the more the merrier then the price is 2 low…

[Demon767]

exactly, how they are been used the cost is to low