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[NCOIC]

Ok baseline....

I am not the best player

I like the armor doctrine so I am not too bright obviously

Ok here's the skinny, the intel, the 411, the sitrep....

Rules of combat,, tanks in OPEN ground should not be rushed by troops.... EIR reality,,, troops routinely run across OPEN UNOBSTRUCTED GROUND and kill a tank. MGs don't stop them, tank HE rounds don't stop them.... they all have this uber shreck crap that frankly is bovine scatology.

I back up tanks that still can't outrun troops running across OPEN UNOBSTRUCTED GROUND while MGing the bejesus outta them... and still they get shots from totally BS  AT rockets. That do tremendous amounts of damage to my tank

Holy crap! HTs that take 3-4 76mm rounds to kill WTF? This game has to have SOME basis in reality. Put some friggin REALISTIC lethality so peeps play with at least some semblance of tactical reality and not simply game the system.

Sorry despite the massive efforts by all here the balance issues are starting to get to me..... Yeah it is work in progress so some things are gonna be Tango Uniform but I am tired of it. I don't wanna play the kewl uber Nazi units with the kewl names and snappy uniforms. I wanna play the side the WON the friggin war.

Ok gonna cool off now.

[Sixpack]

So you are just ranting because your sherman got plasterd by some axis infantry, you had no 30. cal to cover the tank from what it seems.
This thing happens all the time to axis tanks with rangers or airborne running up and annihilating them and they can´t be pinned.

If you want realism, why not, my Marder should shoot over half of the map threw all the bushes, oneshot your sherman and killing the two rifle squads next to it because the whole ammunition blew up.

And Elite infantry, as wehr you get em but as non Fall player it is all basic stuff.

[NCOIC]

tank has 30 and 50 cal.....

Tank has  76mm HE rounds

Mebbe both sides need tweaking

When rushing armor across open ground like a field 11 bravo are toast

Built up MOUT terrain 11 Bravo very dangerous

Understand scaling down ranges Aint talking about that

Still cooling off

[Baine]

Its called reversing the tank and then you will see that the infantry gets pwned.



Except for airborne but you seem to be playing allies.

[Groundfire]

uhhg, this is one of those "you gotta go play vCoH and get good at it" type deals. Either that or try to refrain from posting after you get beat.

Tank MGs are shit next to their manpacked cousins.

There are things in this game that you may not be aware of which...
A.) reduce suppression on enemy troops
B.) Increase accuracy of enemy troops
C.) Things that might debuff your troops

4 Shreck squads will kill your sherman if they get close enough for a penetrating hit. It would be great if the shermy got sideskirts like every axis tank has to prevent this, but they dont, so you just got to be carefull, or pack alot of repair kits.

[NCOIC]

Yeah as noted my abilities are not the best.... But i dont have the time and still I am tired of the gameyness part of EIRR.

Backed up tanks but still uber goobers catch up despite that across OPEN FIELD

Cooling off

[Mgallun74]

i used to be same way buzz, realism and so on, unfourtunately all the realism type games like this game dont have the persistency or online play this game has, so you have to adjust and play the game.... shermans just cant stand off and fight.. 76mm gun doesnt perform like it should so i wouldnt take it, just ake 75mm shermans and eat infantry all day long.. just avoid the large caliber axis armed tanks.. u will be fine. use m10s, m18s. 57mms or maybe a reinforcment of fireflys to kill tanks.

[Malevolence]

Well, the realism angle can only be taken so far. We're fighting at ranges maximum of a hundred and fifty meters or so here, excluding artillery pieces, in terms of direct fire. At a range like that I wouldn't believe it impossible for a stubby sherman to oneshot a tiger through the driver slot.

Just take real, and scale it back for game purposes. A tiger is relatively speaking more tough than a 75mm sherman, but it's not tougher in the same way it was in real life because it has to be repurposed for gameplay. So now instead of having an overkill super-range gun, it now has a decently powerful gun, but great armor and HP.

[scrapking]

Yeah as noted my abilities are not the best.... But i dont have the time and still I am tired of the gameyness part of EIRR.

Backed up tanks but still uber goobers catch up despite that across OPEN FIELD

Cooling off

Man I feel ya here.  The problem is that the CoH game engine provides a "gamey" experience - moreso if you have more knowledge of, or expect more realism.  The mod might have some leeway to change unit functionality - but even that has its limits, as dictated by the game engine itself.

Try not to expect realism, but instead just try to have fun with what it is.  Some parts of the game represent very well to me, others don't.  I'd have to say that armor implementation is generally very gamey in most regards.  Tanks would be capable of engaging targets at ranges exceeding the size of most maps.  Snipers and HMGs would cover everything within their visible field of fire.  For that matter, HMGs would not only be suppression machines, but also be incredibly lethal.  An open topped M10 trying to run down infantry?  Let me repeat - OPEN TOPPED.  An M10 crew wouldn't want to put their vehicle anywhere near enemy infantry.

What are you gonna do?  In the end, it IS a game, and not a combat sim.  But it can still be competitive, and fun.  Compare it to chess - the pieces do not have to be representative of the combat units they represent so much as they need to balance against each other, and provide a competitive and fun game.

I don't disagree with your observations - or what you imply you would expect from a proper combat sim, but I think the problem is that you need to embrace the idea that this is not that.

[Malevolence]

Basically what Scrap said. As long as they are proportionately the same as their real-world counterparts in at least some way, I dig.

[Ununoctium]

Basically what Scrap said. As long as they are proportionately the same as their real-world counterparts in at least some way, I dig.

Only thing I don't like about this is that the Hellcat Is the same Size as a KT yet as useful as haystack.

[FailHammer]

Fun game>realism.

Reality: the US built over 30,000 shermans in WWII. The germans built around 20 tanks of all types.

Reality: the US landed in Normandy with enough supplies to start a country. The germans were rationing ammo.

Reality: etc.

As for the sherman, back it up. kite those mofos. I just had a four man falls squad gibbed by a sherman in one shot. Shermans>infantry. You should always be able to outrun axis infantry as they dont have the magic fire up button.

[CafeMilani]

 The germans built around 20 tanks of all types.

FAILHAMMER

[NCOIC]

I know all that stuff!

As I posted in my annoying Hellcat thread I like the relative strengths more than an obvious 1 fer 1 model. The maps are too short so obviously CoH scales it down.... I just am peeved that whether I can hit a tank across the map or not I should still be able to back up faster than foot forces can catch me and an HT should still be vulnerable to tank fire so I think my feeling is that things are not scaled down proportionally the same fer all objects. That's where I wish things were better.

Well I can dream!

[EIRRMod]

I tried Modding Men of War (Much MUCH more realism) for something EIR'ry, but the way that individual units are handled, on top of the 'I can goez FPS' aspect really made it bad.

In saying that, the COH engine really DOESNT lend itself well to realism.
Line of sight is arbitrary, there are no hit locations AT ALL, penetration and damage are the only two contributers to how a hit is done and I could go on and ON about this for fucking paragraphs.

So, bottom line.  EIRR *IS* gamey, it has to be, its about the gameplay (as we keep saying) rather than the realism.

[DarkSoldierX]

Reality: the US built over 30,000 shermans in WWII. The germans built around 20 tanks of all types.

Just like one time ingame! My one panther vs 7 shermans and 1 M10... Jesus christ it was hell... but now I have the awsome upgunned ATHT to defend me against those darn shermans