PPs are starting to piss me off.

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Flashpoint Gold]

I have to play games to get PP, right? Well when you first start out with a new doctrine or faction you get 0 PPs and your doctrines staring at you and mocking you because you can't get them. The pp cost for first starting out is horrible. I have to get 50 pps for just the two main blitz doctrine tier 1 abilities.

Here is the thing:
 Most people you play against either play alot or have been playing for a long time so they have alot of doctrine abilities and special units. While all you have is the start out crap. So your going to lose your first 50 games unless the oppenents are complete retards or your teammates can pick up on your slack, which right here is a reason higher up people don't like to play with newcomers.

Let's face it guys, the PP system failed for what it was intended. It only widened the gap between newcomers and veterans.

Do you remember life without the PP system? I could start out with what I needed, Yes the veterans would have alot more, but the gap wasn't as big as it is now.

This may be a rant and I didn't mention the bonuses given to newcomers and to veterans if they play with newcomers, but lets face it, the bonuses kinda suck too.

Don't get me wrong, I love this mod and I know there is still alot of work to do, but the issues between Veterans and newcomers haven't been fixed, they have just been grown.

[EIRRMod]

I'll post AGAIN, that this war has gone on a LOT longer than intended.

The PP advancement part is working fine, its the descrepancy between the higher PP and lower PP companies thats the issue.

Theres a lot of funky ideas coming in that we can add - but atm, we're focusing on the Doctrines - one thing at a time guys   We're not a commercial company.

The PP cost for starting out late, is meant to be adjusted by the bonus given for playing higher ranks.  This works, but means that you usually endure quite a few losses before you are able to compete on an evenish level.

I have however stated, that why should newer players get given everything, while people who have spent the time / effort to GAIN bonuses be penalised?
Its a fine balancing act, and while not perfect - is working.
Its only borked atm due to the war being overextended (a high number of higher ranks) AND the Rank 5 bug that set everyone to Rank 5 a month or so ago.

But, in closing I can see your point, and I understand your frustration.

[Tymathee]

there's a huge difference between the old eir and eirr. The old eirr was a pretty much finished product, had a war going on etc, so thats why you had the system they had in place at the time and above like eierr stated, this isn't a finished product, we're in pretty much an alpha-beta stage pretty much. More beta but alpha in a sense that even though you have ideas what you wanna do, you don't have everything down so there are things subject to change.

I understand your frustration, and the lvl 5 bug did screwup a lot as if you notice there's a lot of people with like 30-40 games and at level 8, when it takes at least twice that  long to make it by normal.

[FailHammer]

Also keep in mind pps =/= victory. Just because you cant get a few buffs offmaps etc doesnt mean you lose. It is frustrating as hell when you are gettin offmaped and onmapped and cant do shit...but then if you play axis you might as well get used to it anyways. Its even more frustrating to play vs all the vet, so just hunt it.

Bravo Zulu Emod

[Demon767]

yea if you start out late in the war, play as allies, atleast you wont be offmaped more than 20 times a game.

[Two]

yea if you start out late in the war, play as allies, atleast you wont be offmaped more than 20 times a game.

Not really, firestorms and such.

[wildsolus]

firestorm, precision strike, v1, rocket arty, henschel, butterfly bombs

seriously demon

[Smokaz]

Terror packs as much offmaps as any of the american doctrines if they want to

[Aggamemnon]

Why all the hating on offmaps anyway?

Both sides get them and all but few have a signature warning cue telltaling they are coming.

A lot of people need to stop blobbing elite units together and keeping an eye on their shit before moaning about offmaps.

It's just as hard to face stacked on map units as it is annoying to be offmapped a lot.

[Jazlizard]

Because you can counter on map units with other units. You can't counter off maps except for perhaps with more off maps of your own.

The other disdain for it I think is the lack of skill involved in using most off maps and artillery, just point click and boom.

[Aggamemnon]

There is skill involved in anything you pull off in the game. Especially getting an officer in place for FOO (and luring enough units into the area to make it worthwhile at 140-150 munitions).

There are warning signs to any offmap, and they are most effective when planned and timed well, you don't simply point and click, and 6 squads die. You lure, bait, suppress/pin and trigger the trap.

People hate it because they hate to keep a lookout for the signs of the offmaps.
It's not about counters, it's about not getting into the wrong situations with your units.

The only thing that is an exception here is the V1, since it targets buildings that can't be moved for the most part.

[EIRRMod]

Because you can counter on map units with other units. You can't counter off maps except for perhaps with more off maps of your own.

The other disdain for it I think is the lack of skill involved in using most off maps and artillery, just point click and boom.

We've discussed alternatives for this, adding a tactical element into the game.

I wont release details yet - but after the Warmap alpha is done, we might try it out.

[Demon767]

no, if you ever played as axis as much as me, you wont say that axis have as much offmaps as allies do. end of discussion.

[Freek]

Lies, axis firestorm and v1 are the best offmaps in the game.  Firestorm has such a huge radius/burning effect that it's almost impossible to escape from (especially atgs).  V1 is instant howi removal tool.

Rocket arty + mi = instant cally/priest removal tool.

If you'd played allies as much as I have, Demon, you'd understand.

End of discussion.

[Smokaz]

(Maximum possible which is what happens when PP's get out of hand, not counting T4's directly until we know how much they are going to add for all of them)

Terror - 2 x Firestorm + 2 x V1 + Terror officer + Nebel
+ They havea  T4 which increases the amount available.
= 4 offmaps, 2 onmaps

Infantry - 2 offmaps, American Officer, Howitzer
+ T4 increases amount available
= 2 offmaps, 2 onmaps

Blitzkrieg - Precision Arty + Nebel
= 2 offmaps, 1 onmap

Armor - Calliope
= 0 offmaps, 1 onmap

Defensive - Gets 2 uses of RA + Stuka + Nebel
+ T4 that increases this amount will probably be implemented (TBA)
= 2 offmaps, 2 onmaps

Airborne - 2(3?) Strafes + 2 bombing runs
+Possibly T4 that increases this amount (The old AS is perhaps TBA)
= 4 offmaps, 0 onmaps

So overall between amis and wehr, wehr has more artillery. Wehr has the nebel tipping the scales to their advantage, offmap artillery in all their doctrines and terror / ab is going to have more than anyone else. The nebel is arguably nerfed now and is pretty tricky to use, making it more fair. Both terror officer and precision strike are weak in terms of being artillery, but they still count. AFAIK a mortar or 57mm doesnt survive a precision strike that hits meaning that it takes out the same type of units that infantry offmaps are being used against just fine.

By a slight amount, wehr artillery options look like they are most abundant while american ones seem a bit more powerful. Imo both terror and ab could benefit from being tuned down, correctly used offmaps are devastating and there's no reason there should be "extra tries".

Bombing Run and Strafe could be combined into a T3 that gives one use of each. Same for Terror's V1/firestorm.

T4's could double the amount, placing them at the current level.

[Freek]

Nebels have been nerfed? 

[Smokaz]

Yes they have - they had their nebelwerfer orifices pounded on mercilessily. Previously a vet 3 nebel would be firing its barrage every 60 seconds. Recharge has been increased by a large amount.