Infantry Weapon Abilites

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[LuAn]

Heyo, i have a brand new hot topic i came across and wanted to discuss.

3 Abilities:

Browning Automatic Rifle(80Mun): Suppresion Fire

Bren LMG(90Mun): Button Enemy Vehicle

Gewehr 43 Rifle(60Mun): Suppressive Volley Fire

Right now, those 3 Abilites are somewhat plain vanilla copies, with the minor cooldown tweak and mun cost removed, but thats not the issue right now.

The thing i wanna talk about is:
Why do these 3 Abilities work completly different?


Oke heres the inside scoop for people who arent familiar on how these 3 abilities operate right now:

Suppression Fire:
Activation:  the effect remains intact for a certain duration without any restrictions
Can only be used if the squad is in the open or in a building

Button Enemy Vehicle:
Channeled and Targeted: which means you have to pick a target for this ability, any other action will cancel the ability, squad has to remain still, if the target gets out of range the ability also breaks
Can be used anywhere (Buildings, Trenches, Open Vehicles)

Suppressive Volley Fire:
Targeted: just pick a target and the effects apply immediatly and lasts during the entire the duration, no range-removal
Can only be used if the squad is on foot


Now my next question comes into action:
Can these 3 abilties be brought inline with each other?(On how they work and where they can be used?)

(And why am i asking this question? Well in vCOH theres the munition resource and cost to balance the usage of abilities, but in EIRR those abilities dont have any further cost to them but the Munition for the actual weapon that enables the ability, and due to that we have to look at other balancing methods)

So any thoughts?
Please try to anwser my questions  

Ps.: Feel free to point out any mistakes those descriptions contain because im not 100% certain on bar suppresion and g43 volley.

[Illegal_Carrot]

BAR SF can be used anytime/anywhere, you don't have to be in the open.
It also suppresses all units in it's area, not just one targeted unit.

Button needs the restrictions it has, because it's ridiculous enough as it is. Making it somehow work like SF or Slow would be way too much.

Slow isn't as effective as either SF or Button, so I think it's fine the way it works now.
Slow can also be used anywhere, not just in the open.

[LuAn]

So both BAR SF and Slow can also be used while in a building or open transporter?

[Smokaz]

BAR SF ability also gets reset if you recrew something with the squad.. easy to abuse.

[jackmccrack]

So both BAR SF and Slow can also be used while in a building or open transporter?

You've been misinformed.

Suppression Fire can be used from within a building but not from within a halftrack transport. Maybe from a Kangaroo.

G43 Volley cannot be used anywhere but on foot.

[LuAn]

thanks jack

[Aggamemnon]

I think they are fine with the exception that Volley Fire shouldn't keep slowing if the unit using it dies or the target get's out of range/retreats.

Bar does suppress multiple units, but not equally, it will pin one main target then suppress others around it.
If you target a single KCH out of two, you will only pin 1 set for instance.

[gamesguy2]

Bars never suppress multiple targets.    It has nearby suppression radius of two.   MGs(including LMG) have a nearby suppression radius of 12.

You can suppress two targets with a bar by shooting at one squad till it suppresses and then manually switching to another squad.   And then switch back after the second squad has pinned.  I've suppressed two squads of KCH with one bar this way.

[Tymathee]

Bars never suppress multiple targets.    It has nearby suppression radius of two.   MGs(including LMG) have a nearby suppression radius of 12.

You can suppress two targets with a bar by shooting at one squad till it suppresses and then manually switching to another squad.   And then switch back after the second squad has pinned.  I've suppressed two squads of KCH with one bar this way.

what he said. I don't understand how slow is slowing its target after only one shot, unless you're shooting that squad in the leg or something.

but in case someone asks wh y you can't use slow in a building, probably because the bar and bren are both light machine guns and the g43 is a rifle.

[gamesguy2]

Bars never suppress multiple targets.    It has nearby suppression radius of two.   MGs(including LMG) have a nearby suppression radius of 12.

You can suppress two targets with a bar by shooting at one squad till it suppresses and then manually switching to another squad.   And then switch back after the second squad has pinned.  I've suppressed two squads of KCH with one bar this way.

what he said. I don't understand how slow is slowing its target after only one shot, unless you're shooting that squad in the leg or something.

but in case someone asks wh y you can't use slow in a building, probably because the bar and bren are both light machine guns and the g43 is a rifle.

Its just a trigger setting, you can set G43 slow to usable while garrisoned fairly easilly.

[Lemures]

You can Button a vehicle from within a building, it's also the best option if you can use it. Since if the squad moves AT ALL the effect is removed.

[CrazyWR]

Ya, I started a thread asking why g43 couldn't slow while in buildings awhile ago and nothing happened.  Hopefully this time they'll fix it.

[AmPM]

They are all fine as is.

[Tymathee]

Bars never suppress multiple targets.    It has nearby suppression radius of two.   MGs(including LMG) have a nearby suppression radius of 12.

You can suppress two targets with a bar by shooting at one squad till it suppresses and then manually switching to another squad.   And then switch back after the second squad has pinned.  I've suppressed two squads of KCH with one bar this way.

what he said. I don't understand how slow is slowing its target after only one shot, unless you're shooting that squad in the leg or something.

but in case someone asks wh y you can't use slow in a building, probably because the bar and bren are both light machine guns and the g43 is a rifle.

Its just a trigger setting, you can set G43 slow to usable while garrisoned fairly easilly.

I didn't say you can't do it but I think they set it that way because of that. You can set nades to work in a building and stickies as well, its just not set up that way.

BTW, how about that being an addition that gives me a thought. How about a doctrine that enables that? "Infantry can throw grenades from buildings" that'd be kinda cool.

[Mysthalin]

Tym, it would be easily mistaken as bug abuse (preparing the grenade before entering the building), and another problem arises from it not being meant that way. If the wrong guy takes out the grenade to throw it, the grenade use goes away, and you lose the grenade without throwing it... It's just way bugy.

[LuAn]

http://www.coh-stats.com/Weapon:Gewehr_43_Rifle
and
http://www.coh-stats.com/Weapon:Panzer_Elite_Kar98K

The Kar98K is the standard rifle for every PE infantry
(except Luftwaffe Infantry, they have this version: http://www.coh-stats.com/Weapon:Luftwaffe_Kar98K)

Now can the G43 be considered a upgrade or sidegrade stats wise?
Are two of the G43 per squad worth 60Mun? Is the ability worth 60Mun?

[Draken]

Well g43 is all about slow ability. Its ultimate vet hunt ability.

[Mysthalin]

G43 is roughly two times better at DPS at all ranges than the Pzgren K98.

[LuAn]

G43 is roughly two times better at DPS at all ranges than the Pzgren K98.

How so?

[Mysthalin]

It just is due to the higher rate of fire...
If I can dig up the rifle DPS table one day, I'll post it .