EiR/OMG Maps

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[EIRRMod]

We need some new maps,  EIR is an awsome mod but atm a lot of our maps are played out.  Maybe I will produce another famous anthony210 map!

That would be awesome anthony210,  in fact while OMG has an exclusivity clause for their maps - they have a good reason for doing so - as stated in a previous post, the amount of support their mapping team is given and the input and feedback these mappers must therefore get.

EIRR cant do that yet, however we are undergoing some changes in development that will create a closer tie with people who contribute - especially mappers!

[EIRRMod]

OMG devs and mappers work closely to make the maps fit together with upcoming modes and gametypes. It wouldn't make sense for a map that was developed for an OMG specific game mode to be released over here. It just wouldn't work.

Quoting this part to expand a little.

While you could resector the map, that map is no longer the same map is it?  If it had other game modes tied in, and EIR (or OMG) couldnt read those special 'bits' for other game modes - the map needs to be exclusive as the OMG team has already stipulated.

Some of those same mapper could release EIR only, without that extra code, but thats extra work for something that is of no benefit (other than exposure).

So I completely understand the stance.

It is sad though

[DasNoob]

Keep the omg is bad eir is good omg is good eir is bad out of it please. This thread is about the maps and their makers, not about the mod. If this slips into a flame I'm locking it. So far it has been ok.

@spart, your maps would get the sh@t played out of them if you decide to make a general version too. Much love from our and vcoh community too. As a maper, if they didn't actually tell you not to, then I'd do it.

Hell, I'm on the eir dev team as a mod... Doesn't stop me from watching "in the foxhole" every week!

[anthony210]

Yep im not saying OMG is bad.  I am just saying the reasoning behind their maps being exclusive makes no sense.

EIRRMOD,  I understand what your saying about them.  A map is a map.  The same reason we can play VCoH maps with EIR.  The only reason they arent played is because a lot of them are played out and people prefer custom maps.  In fact I would venture to say that most if not all of the current exclusive maps for OMG would play just fine with EIR.  The ONLY reason they arent played with EIR because OMG wont let their mappers release them for us as well.  It has nothing to do with game mods and such.

Even if OMG decided to unveil some awsome new game mode that no one has ever thought of,  it still wouldnt be difficult to design maps to play with both mods.

In fact,  OMG and EIR both say they want to co exist and be friendly with eachother right?  Well, sorry but when your dev team chooses to make almost all your new maps exclusive to your mod and then ALSO keeps on playing maps that were designed for EIR originally that doesnt seem fair.  You can come here and use our maps but we cant go there and use yours...

[Baine]

Yeah, the fun part is, they got all the maps, but lesser players. And all this exclusive-map thingy is just kindergarden in my eyes.
The maps would be played even more in both mods, so double the feedback

[BigDick]

The ONLY reason they arent played with EIR because OMG wont let their mappers release them for us as well.  It has nothing to do with game mods and such.

i wouldnt say that, as e.g. hartkeks for st. come dumont did (the initial arty onto the city) you can add scar code to maps
there might be technical reason but i agree the mapper could remove that to make a "normal" map that will work without problems
there it comes to the exclusive agreement probably....reasons could be that many mappers joined the OMG dev team when OMG was an alpha end of last year

now many people play EiRR over OMG because of different reasons (maybe easier to get a game up) and they want some additional features that make OMG more interesting (like tons of maps, game modes)

i can understand that but it would be still an additional feature to have scar code in omg versions for special game modes and normal maps for eir

so some mappers should think about that a second time if they would share their awesome work as "normal map" with us  

[Demon767]

i also watch the "in the foxhole" series and always wondering how on earth i can increase my chances to get on a shoutcast lol

[salan]

sniff.. if I had time i'd be doing our own weekly shoutcasts... once doctrines are done, perhaps I'll have more time.

Oh well, this is about played out as far as it needs to go ?

[Silverstone]

What is the difference between the two mods for those of us who only play eir? I tried to register at OMG once but I got stuck somewhere and that was it =) They had shiny icons, though.

[Demon767]

they have no offmaps. lol, well thats what i could gather since i cant find any doctrine choices etc

[Unkn0wn]

Stick to the topic chaps, we don't want this to become another EIR vs OMG thread.

[deadbolt]

GO EIR!

[Draygon]

Its been stated but I will go a bit further here as to why most of the OMG maps will NOT in fact work with EIR, re-sectoring will not work.

Pretty much all of the new maps that come out now have two version, a regular play (meaning MCP or VP) and our Marcus Vision (yea its called that, announcement on it coming soon) version.  The code for these maps is done behind the scenes, if they were to be attempted to be played by EIR they would SCAR out every single time.  With the new game types we are putting in over the next few months will also have scar embedded in and will not work.

So if you want to play OMG maps, play OMG, if you want to play EIR play whichever you like, but the topic is pretty tired and getting old.

Edit: That may have sounded more harsh than I meant it to sound, Im  just tired of explaining why we did and do what we do with the maps/mappers for OMG; because its been explained several times.

[Unkn0wn]

Pretty much all of the new maps that come out now

You've had the exclusivity thing in place long before the 'Marcus Vision' code was. In addition, I'm quite confident that 'Marcus Vision' (lol) is a .scar file added to the map's sga rather than anything actually done inside the worldbuilder to facilitate the code. (Other than maybe added starting positions which are easy to add/remove)

I could open up some OMG maps and see for my self but that would probably be a waste of download on my end.

I'm sorry but it just sounds like a cheap excuse. The real reasoning undoubtedly is that just like people in the corporate world you are using 'exclusive' as a selling point for your modification over the competition. Nothing wrong with this I guess... Except that we're not two companies, we're two mods and for two mods to compete each other like this is just childish imho.

We over at EIR have purposely decided not to make maps created by members in our community 'exclusive', it would be a shame that you force us into following your methods just to get the point across. (See Prisoner's Dilemma - both mods would benefit the most from cooperating rather than selfishly pushing their own interests)

Spartan has proven that maps for OMG work just fine here at EIR, his maps are very popular and we are extremely grateful that he has decided to ditch the exclusivity thing on some of his maps. We may not offer mappers fancy developer positions in exchange for (exclusive) maps like OMG and we will likely never do so but that doesn't mean we aren't grateful for every good map submitted by someone from our or any other community.

Im  just tired of explaining why we did and do what we do with the maps/mappers for OMG; because its been explained several times.

I'd like to point out that it hasn't actually. This is the first time this specific issue is brought up on our forums and it is the very first time this 'explanation' is posted in response. I read both forums and I would be very surprised if I would have missed a thread and response like this on either forum.

[Warbirds]

May I just state, since almost no one can seem to grasp this concept, that making a map exclusive is SOLELY the choice of the mapper.  The mapper decides whether or not to make that decision, no one else.

[Unkn0wn]

I'm sorry but I find that very hard to believe warbirds. OMG mappers become a part of the development team, with full insight to everything that goes on behind the scenes over at OMG. I can't imagine that as a developer of OMG you could get away with making ALL your maps available to both mods.

And statements made by some of your mappers only strengthen this theory.

Maybe when a mapper who does make all his maps available to both mods becomes a part of the OMG map team will you be able to throw that argument around.

[Smokaz]

The Marcus Vision sounds like a cheap paperback novel by Dan Brown.

[SaintPauli]

We may not offer mappers fancy developer positions in exchange for (exclusive) maps like OMG and we will likely never do

Wasn’t that how you got on the team Mr. Map Lead?  

[Unkn0wn]

We may not offer mappers fancy developer positions in exchange for (exclusive) maps like OMG and we will likely never do

Wasn’t that how you got on the team Mr. Map Lead?  

Nope, I was with with the original EIR development before I even made my first ever map. (Which was total failure by the way).

[Draygon]

Actually what Warbirds says is true, and to hopefully sum all of this up in one single post (to stop all the sob stories, etc...) Ill say this:

It's about developing mod content. Maps are just as much a part of the mod as the SCAR code or the database.

Status for executive map team members isn't the only perk. It also includes a separate mapping forum, wiki pages, group projects, game modes, and numerous other benefits. One of the more noticeable benefits you receive is access to the Development forum and our inner workings.

We go out of our way to keep mappers and community members happy.

We want team members to keep maps exclusive, but this is not out of "pettiness". It's because their heavily involved in the development of the mod. We can't force them to keep maps made solely by you exclusive. What you do with them is your choice. It's all about mapper's choice.

Quote from: Unkn0wn

   

maps created by members in our community

That's where we differ. In OMG they're not community members, but developers.

I'm saying this not to agitate feelings between the two mods, but to explain the thinking behind our actions.