How does "Fire for Effect" affect companies that already have Sat Mortar and ES?

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[Tymathee]

i think the best way to limit off maps is the tying it to a single unit thing that was proposed by eirrmod.

As for precision strike please for the sakes of everything holy get rid of that thing...blitz relies on tanks, and precision strike is so annoying, they use it the whole game to insta gib at guns and even without that they've got storms which are pretty good themselves at taking out at guns.

[anthony210]

Aren't blobs easier and more profitable to hit with artillery fire than support weapons (besides Precision Strike)?

In theory yes, but I since off maps are so abundant now people use them on anything. 

[Malevolence]

Though the 25pounder is absolute scheiss, Priest doesn't seem that bad, I've seen IPFK and some other players with british companies do a lot of damage with vet 2-3 priests. What I've not seen much of though, is hummels kicking ass. I've tried to use a hummel with a SE company, but it just didn't hit any targets even if they sat still before the first strike hits. I've had some success softening up fireflies and other tanks, but seeing a shot just directly overshoot a big infantry blob is highly demotivational. For pinpoint strikes, the 105 onmap seems the superior arty piece followed by the nebel for blob/triage harasssment. Too bad the 105 gets immediatly hounded by MI + offmap or bike/rush + offmap once it has fired it's first barrage.

Back when offmaps and most doctrinal stuff wasn't implemented, on map artillery was kicking ass and chewing bubblegum. I was blowing up Boobaka and Pauli on abbeville like a wild thing. All their mortars did the skygrab, you know the move where you blow up and try to grab the sky with your dead hand sailing through the air.

Now that the tradtional easymode counters (MI) and any axis offmap pounds the only accurate allied artillery in 1 attempt, they are back to scarcity. Not saying that recon + bombing run isn't devastating for the nebel, but you might be able to avoid it on roads with a moving arty piece and the prelimenary recon is kind of a giveaway.  Though Calliope is still a royal pain in the ass, but it doesnt get as good veterancy which was a improvement in the balance of this highly surviable unit.

Really, when you consider the idea that onmaps require protection and population offmaps make them look so bad other than the recycling availability of barrages. Damn offmaps

Not sure that was the topic of this thread

Back in the day of original EiR I ran an 8 Howitzer infantry company to take with me on attack missions in 3v3 and up. It had offmap specialization, too, so it had like four or five 105 offmaps. Mortars? Gone. Nebels? Gone. Machinegun in the open? Gone. Any house you garrison? Soon to be gone. It was quite entertaining.

[Gaelthal]

Though I know this is off-topic, I'd like to say that I agree with Smokaz regarding the on-map/off-map thing. Howitzer/Priest/Nebel and even mortars have become ineffective compared to their cost (both pop and resources) due to the high amount of off-maps available in some doctrines. While it probably is balanced with SP cost and few passive buffs etc for the arty companies, I just find it to be more of a boring gameplay.

The problem as I see it is that it doesn't cost anything ingame to use quite alot of offmaps.

[Aggamemnon]

Boring? sitting around without fear of getting offmapped is boring.

If anything, offmap really proves why PE work. Mobile tactics.

A lot of my regular playing "enemies" have adjusted pretty fast and proven, as Salan already stated, that offmap doctrines are pretty weak if you adjust your playing style from "I like to sit in one spot all game" or "Blob blob blob"

Tank reapers and German steel ect are a LOT more powerful compared.

Just Got my T4, "Fire For Effect" and I already had Smoke barrage, Mortar Saturation and Earthshaker, I'll let you know how it goes Salan.
I Probably wouldn't of gotten the basic smoke barrage had I known I could get it packaged into a t4 (would of gotten rifling or priest)

As yet, I'm not pro, but neither am I terrible, my win/loss currently hovers around 1/1.

[Gaelthal]

First off, I am not saying offmaps should be removed so "my blobs" can own again. You have misunderstood what I am trying to say here, Agga.

I am not saying it is unbalanced and OP with all the offmap. My point being the way that off maps can nullify onmaps and deny larger parts of a map just ruins some of the fun in the game. The existence of the offmaps and its usage isn't a problem in itself, but the high amount arty companies get is sometimes annoying. Especially in an attack/defend scenario.

I had this one game last night where I was off mapped as soon as I either brought in an onmap or won a skirmish, making it impossible for me to advance.

Maybe it is my lack of skill to adapt and/or uneven teams, but avoiding getting hit by offmaps altogether is very hard thus making it very hard to deal with an equal/higher popcap army waiting for you after you've made it past the arty-fire.

[Silverstone]

Clearly your lack of skill.. Anyway, to go even more off-topic, I was wondering if the earth shaker barrage has any seeking properties or am I just incredibly unlucky when it hits all my stuff?

[Demon767]

Yea Offmaps should just be taken off completely as its incredibly boring when your attacking as blitz and all you got is a piss ass howizter short and allies have mortar barrages, earth shakers or that new arty (or it could be earthshaker) that doesnt even have to hit on your P4, just a few clicks away and it deals like 600 damage to it. thats complete bullshit, and your telling me that precision should be taken out. thats complete bull. Your first wave once gets close to the enemy lines gets artyed. than once you come back for the 2nd wave and get ready to push in, they do it again, and again, and again, you dont even get a chance to push in because you have to take out HMG's with mortars, ATG's with mortars first before going in, or you just going to lose, but oh allies just sit and get a jeep, and press the i win fuck you button. btw those spread shots are utter bullshit as they always hit every single time, you cant avoid them.

Get rid of Offmaps completely, done and dusted you can now focus on implementing more useful stuff than i win buttons

[Baine]

Reduce the amount of offmaps, but don't get rid of them, that's the worst thing that could happen. I played OMG recently and attack/defend mode where people tailor their company like in old eir for defend etc.

Onmap artillery spam is unbeatable in most cases. And the game becomes an attrition fest, where both sides dug in and keep spamming artillery. Offmaps help alot.

[acker]

Honestly if the off map spam keeps getting worse its actually gonna make more blobs as people will use less support weapons.  MGs and Morters are now off map fodder...

Aren't blobs easier and more profitable to hit with artillery fire than support weapons (besides Precision Strike)?

In theory yes, but I since off maps are so abundant now people use them on anything. 

In that case, how would that encourage blobbing?

[Trishut]

It's easier the get away with inf, support weapons are doomed against most off-map.

[Aggamemnon]

A lot of people like to exaggerate I see.

Earthshaker, of all the Arty abilities is the most fair.
It does not aim, or lock on, or target anything, it's a random lay down of arty shells. Like real arty power should be, area denial and hard to push with (since you can get hit yourself).

If you get hit by more than one you are extremely unlucky (and I am extremely luck yay!)
There are far more powerful t3 and t4's out there, and again, the people hating are the ones who refuse to adapt their approach.

Blobs of infantry are always number 1 target, then support, and with earthshaker, I scare tanks away.
Brits are lacking in hard and fast AT, and taking arty totally compounds this.
Pulling off an arty win is a LOT harder than a heavy tank win, hands down.

I prefer the fluid combat style, lines pushing and moving. Than ATG sniping, heavy tank sniping, double/triple mortar barrages slowly picking away at eachother.

You need arty to keep the gameplay open, without it people simply lock themselves down and sit it out.

[Gaelthal]

Again I am not asking for the artillery to be removed, just need some tweaking. The way it is, there is simply too much.

As I see it you're basing your view on artillery as an RCA player. I for my own part aint complaining specifically about Earthshaker Barrage. It is the total amount of artillery that can be fielded in a game with certain doctrine combinations for both sides. Atleast Attack/Defend games are annoying.

[Mysthalin]

I have been barraged by 5 earth shaker's today.
Got hit once, lost 2 guys on an HMG.

Same ammount of mortar saturation got 1 grenadier guy .

It's the most "fun" offmap ever tbh - aerial denial, not an "I win" button - something all the offmaps should be changed to.

[salan]

I have been barraged by 5 earth shaker's today.
Got hit once, lost 2 guys on an HMG.

Same ammount of mortar saturation got 1 grenadier guy .

It's the most "fun" offmap ever tbh - aerial denial, not an "I win" button - something all the offmaps should be changed to.

its like playing the lottery.. heh!

the biggest thing about offmaps is that they give a player a visual representation to dislike.  And if they get hit by them, a rather easy target to hate.

passive buffs sneak by unseen in most cases (its partially why i put animations on auras .. so we could see the effects in progress).. imagine if you saw every buff represented in game, how many people would complain about that then?

[Aggamemnon]

I must of personally used around 30-40 of them now.

I can count tank kills on one hand.
It's superb for scaring them off though.

FOO is much more dangerous if you button a tank (but also a lot more risk/reward since it's officer bound)

I don't want to get into comparing powers but Rocket arty is extremely dangerous compared if you don't gtfo, but I think it SHOULD be in the game.

Personally I think the best approach would be to dedicated spotters/officers to all but the highest tiers of offmap artillery.
Not just weak officers, but things like jeeps, bikes, officers, recon sections etc.
If it does go that way, then cloakable units should no be allowed to spot for arty imo. Neither should tanks or Elite infantry.

This way you could lower the cost of some of the pay per uses (like foo etc) but have to buy the spotter upgrade on selected units, I personally wouldn't go that way but it's an idea.

[salan]

Reduce the amount of offmaps, but don't get rid of them, that's the worst thing that could happen. I played OMG recently and attack/defend mode where people tailor their company like in old eir for defend etc.

Onmap artillery spam is unbeatable in most cases. And the game becomes an attrition fest, where both sides dug in and keep spamming artillery. Offmaps help alot.

you remember in eirr before we put in the offmaps, howitzers ruled the field... and the same thing was happening.

games at least are a lot quicker paced with offmaps in them.

[salan]

Personally I think the best approach would be to dedicated spotters/officers to all but the highest tiers of offmap artillery.

ya, we've been discussing it.. I figured out a way to make it work relatively well as well.  and then the off maps would actually cost you population and in game resources.. not just out of game sp and immunity.

[SaintPauli]

I have said this many times and ill say it again. Offmaps ruin onmaps. When was the last time you saw any competent player field anything bigger than a mortar? Onmaps and offmaps simply cannot coexist.

And now you start talking about making onmaps more resistant to offmaps. This is the WORST possibly scenario since it will cause the total amount of artillery to rise to a whole new level.

Let’s get back to mortars and sniper duels, please.

[CrazyWR]

agree with Pauli...