An EIRR first Goliath and Puma SPAMwhich!!

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[Armormave]

This game features not only the goliath spam I have complained about in previous posts (which still hasn't been addressed by the devs) but the Puma spam we all knew was coming (which the devs allege would not necessarily come to reality). 

I haven't watched the replay yet but the axis in this game had no less than six goliaths and six pumas in a 2v2!!!  In fact based on their tactic of loading pios w/flamers in halftracks and them having them jump out and build goliaths I believe there were even more goliaths that never got deployed because the pioneers died before they could place them.

As for the Pumas, the axis use them as their sole end game.  Toward the end of the game two British Cromwells are literally raped by a pack of Pumas supported by Ostwinds. 

And to cap it all off, watch the Sdz halftrack or whatever it is, it is hit by an upgunned Shermen no less than three times and takes no damage.  Later it is hit by airborne and a captured pak and losses maybe 10% health.  This is obviously a bug that the axis player is aware of and exploits during the game especially considering how he rushes it into the allied territority without fear of it being destroyed by anything.

http://www.filefront.com/14189587/puma%20spam.zip

After all of that my question is this, how come when allies are believed to have an OP unit or capability (i.e. 90 mun satchel) it is addressed IMMEDIATELY by the devs!!! But both the goliath and the puma are clearly being spammed and exploited and its seems there is just a wait and see attitude?

[jackmccrack]

Dunno why Puma pop was dropped in the first place.

[bbsmith]

Yeah. I thought pumas were fine at 8 pop.

[DasNoob]

At this point people have so much PP that ANY unit can be spammed!  It is a product of the war lasting too long.

[Demon767]

pumas are fine.

[EIRRMod]

Dunno why Puma pop was dropped in the first place.

Ditto.

The goliaths are high mu cost, but I see them in use a lot - they are one trick ponies, which sometimes pay off VERY well.

The Puma reduction seems to be an oversight imo, which will be discussed before the next patch.

upgunned Shermen no less than three times and takes no damage.

This, sounds like a bug - will watch the replay to find out what went on.

However, the tone of:

After all of that my question is this, how come when allies are believed to have an OP unit or capability (i.e. 90 mun satchel) it is addressed IMMEDIATELY by the devs!!! But both the goliath and the puma are clearly being spammed and exploited and its seems there is just a wait and see attitude?

Being that 'the devs' that can do something about this number.... 1?  2 if salan wasnt doing Doctrines, and the other is me.

There is no 'wait and see' attitude, more of a 'fix it when we get to it' and being that I have a family, and ALREADY spend over 20+ hours a WEEK on the mod, I find *YOUR* attitude, quite rude.

Some fixes, like the satchel, are a mere 10 second fix, while changing the Puma pop requires that 10 second + an rgd change + another mod-build and upload to the server.

If you want the devs to listen, and not provoke wrath, just point these things out rather than rage posting.

[Armormave]

Please accept my apology for any offense EIRRMod.  None intended.  My remark was meant more for AXIS nation and not devs in particular.  I simply meant to imply that the AXIS cry and PM the devs so much when they lose a game to so called OP allied units that it creates the image of a crisis.  In general I believe they are much better than allied playes at posting replays and pointing out potential exploits.  I'm just trying to get allied players to pay more attention to axis exploits and not just assume we lost because all Axis units and tactics are superior to allied. 

As for the Puma spam I watched the replay and only counted 3 at the very end so I stand corrected on that but I still believe the pop is too low as it appears he fields 3 with 2 Ostwinds and 2 Panzers at the same time. 

The goliath spam is obvious and quite amusing if you watch the replay in map mode.  You can constantly see Sdz halftracks running onto the map and then pioneers jumping out laying mines and building goliaths.  I counted 6 goliaths and think there were 2 more where the pio got killed before they could build them.

[anthony210]

Allies complain just as much as axis complain.  The problem lies in that the doctrines themselves are not balanced yet because they are not finished.

You cant expect a completly balanced and finished game when we are in beta testing.

[EIRRMod]

Armormave, thanks - that means a lot, and as you know its difficult to understand tone via text.

anthony210 is right too, the doctrines send things all out of whack atm (well, in some respects)

Your post did hightlight some points - and we'll look into it, probably nothing with the goliaths, but the Puma needs review again.

[Demon767]

i want evidence to point out how "AXIS" cry and PM devs more.

Sry but i hate bias attitudes in this community

[Mysthalin]

It's all pretty simple - puma needs to be 7 popcap, upgun puma needs to be 8 popcap, and be a seperate unit with it's own availability, and which costs slightly more fuel, rather than an upgrade for the standard puma.

IMO.

[EIRRMod]

It's all pretty simple - puma needs to be 7 popcap, upgun puma needs to be 8 popcap, and be a seperate unit with it's own availability, and which costs slightly more fuel, rather than an upgrade for the standard puma.

IMO.

7 pop sounds pretty good actually.

Why do you suggest an additional +1 pop for the upgunned version btw?

[wildsolus]

i want evidence to point out how "AXIS" cry and PM devs more.

Sry but i hate bias attitudes in this community

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=11380.0

[Mysthalin]

It's all pretty simple - puma needs to be 7 popcap, upgun puma needs to be 8 popcap, and be a seperate unit with it's own availability, and which costs slightly more fuel, rather than an upgrade for the standard puma.

IMO.

7 pop sounds pretty good actually.

Why do you suggest an additional +1 pop for the upgunned version btw?

Frankly, because at 7 popcap you could field 3 upgun pumas and still get 2 pios for capping at the begining of the game. With 8 popcap, you could only get the 3 upguns(believe me, those would rape any tank start and most brittish starts).

Gimmick buffer .

[Demon767]

i want evidence to point out how "AXIS" cry and PM devs more.

Sry but i hate bias attitudes in this community

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=11380.0

that guy doesnt count jeeze

and i was referring to how does this guy know if any AXIS pm devs huh huh huh?

[EIRRMod]

I get ~20 - 100 PMs a day.

If I was to say who whinges more.... Itd be axis tbh, WM to be precise ;P

But thats kinda fair, theyve been hit hardest with the nerf bat.

[Mysthalin]

You have to agree, though - they did indeed need it.

[boobaka]

  I simply meant to imply that the AXIS cry and PM the devs so much when they lose a game to so called OP allied units that it creates the image of a crisis.  In general I believe they are much better than allied playes at posting replays and pointing out potential exploits.  I'm just trying to get allied players to pay more attention to axis exploits and not just assume we lost because all Axis units and tactics are superior to allied. 

dude don't u know that axis players are allied players?

[Demon767]

well HEAT rounds suck so much atm, Armor company T2 Nullify half of the T4 ability, awesome eh.

[boobaka]

oh and the name? it is not the first every goliath and puma spam. and 6 goliath from a 2v2 is not seen as spam from me. and just 3 pumas. so if u bring 3 shermens i can call it spam? why don't u take up that ppl can take 3 P4 in there company too.. is that spam? 3 rifles 3 grens 3 airborn................
edit. 3 HMG that must be spam..