Veterancy = easy to get?

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[Dnicee]

Well in my opinoin its way to easy to get veterancy, it should be something me as a player would be proud to have....but im not. Everyone has vet 3 bla bla bla.

Veterancy shoud be almost rare imo.

I think its really need a look at?

So what do guys think about this?!

Should it be this easy or shoud it be harder to get veterancy?

[Unkn0wn]

Problem with harder to get veterancy is that it means only the people with 5402 games will have vet 3 units. Where as when everyone has or can get vet 3 units it's a lot more 'fair'.

[Two]

Yet better players should have better units imo, im sure a soldier thats been in more battles is better then one thats played a few but they the same rank. I was thinking about this the other day, and you could raise requirements alot and maybe raise the bonuses or you give them more vet lvls which to get the higher ones take a really long time.

[Dnicee]

Well, players that cant keep their units alive shouldnt have any vet!

This mod its getting a bit to friendly to bad players. I mean when the bad players run around with vet 3 stuff, think how much vet the good players have?

Its just so sad when you dont care if you kill some vet 3 unit or one of your vet 3 units die.. Those moments shoud be huge!

[salan]

we had it harder to get for like the first 2 years eir existed and the beginning of eirr.

it was changed mostly for the reasons unknown states and it coincides with the introduction of SP.

if vet was hard to get, you would NEVER spend SP on it because how often you lose it vs how often you gain it.  


something we can, and will be looking at is MORE levels of vet, then just vet 3... you can go higher

[LuAn]

Mhm few things about veterancy:

If veterancy on emplacements makes them unable to relocate, remove the veterancy, emplacements dont need their veterancy (they often get destroyed before the guys come out, or if you retreat at the very first sign of trouble emplacements arent of any use) but being able to relocate is much more needed.

Which leads me to my second issue:
There are units that have a similiar role:
Howitzer and 25pder
Mortars and MortarHT
ATGuns and Marder/50mmATHT

All those units are somehow similiar to each other, but there are big differences in their survailability:
Whereas for the first ones mentioned(howi, mortar, atguns) a single lonely guy automatically retreats after his weapon mates get gunned down and maybe brings home some xp,
the latter ones have a much lesser suvailability, because they are a single unit that always dies completly.
BUT the units in one line, always have the same Vet Modifier, which in my opinion, just isnt right considering the survailability for these units.

and i totally not agree with you dniccee for the reasons salan and unknown stated.

[Unkn0wn]

Yet better players should have better units imo,

If you're a better player you should not be needing better units and better abilities on top of that.

Well, players that cant keep their units alive shouldnt have any vet!

And they don't. When you say 'everyone has vet 3 units', you are actually exaggerating. Granted everyone with a little bit of micro and care can get units to vet 3 indeed, but just look at the leaderboards and note that most units don't even have all 50 positions taken by vet 3 units.

[Tymathee]

It's easy to get vet cuz you just get a few kills and when your units get low, retreat, simple as that. Any noob can figure that out, you can play 100 games, go 20-80 and have an army of vet 3 units if you constanlty retreat and care more about pretty vet than winning.

[FailHammer]

vet is for clowns.

MOAR VET WHORING

rabble rabble rabble.

Dnicee just hunt more.

[Two]

Yet better players should have better units imo,

If you're a better player you should not be needing better units and better abilities on top of that.

Well, players that cant keep their units alive shouldnt have any vet!

And they don't. When you say 'everyone has vet 3 units', you are actually exaggerating. Granted everyone with a little bit of micro and care can get units to vet 3 indeed, but just look at the leaderboards and note that most units don't even have all 50 positions taken by vet 3 units.

If i didnt want my units to be better why the hell would i play a persistence mod? How about everyone lvl 8 cant gain vet where as lvl 1's start at vet 3 seems to make sense -.-

[CafeMilani]

Well in my opinoin its way to easy to get veterancy, it should be something me as a player would be proud to have....but im not. Everyone has vet 3 bla bla bla.

Veterancy shoud be almost rare imo.

I think its really need a look at?

So what do guys think about this?!

Should it be this easy or shoud it be harder to get veterancy?

obviously: vet on AB/(rifles) is pretty easy to get

[AmPM]

Vet requires no skill to get, hell, advancing requires no skill anymore.

Basically, the mods been reduced to being friendly to the worst players out there.

Can't win games? No problem! You advance just as much and gain just as much vet too, as long as you can smack that T button.

Its taking a lot of the fun out of it.

+XP for units on win, -XP on units for a loss. At least then you give a damn about winning.

[Mukip]

It required no skill in the past either, just studious choice in who you played.  Advancement based on number on wins will just bring noob stomping and game dodging back (to a greater extent) which are much worse than bad players having lots of vet.  Good players don't need better units and more resources just so they can smash other player's faces in even harder.  The mod isn't just about your personal enjoyment, think about newer and casual players and the chances of them sticking around if there is a clique of stacking old guard around who have better everything. 

A short story about old EiR:

Mediocre Wehrmacht Stacker #1: "oh noez weve been waiting 4 hours for a game, but we are too scaredz to play against each other, why dont allies come"
Mediocre Wehrmacht Stacker #2: "because we rock, we are so awesume"
Mediocre Wehrmacht Stacker #3: "lol yeh we are, we strike fear into allies lololol, allies need to lrn 2 play"

...7 hours of waiting later:

*Good ally #1: joins*
*Good ally #2: joins*
*Good ally #3: joins*

*Mediocre Wehrmacht Stacker #1 leaves*
*Mediocre Wehrmacht Stacker #2 leaves*
*Mediocre Wehrmacht Stacker #3 leaves*

Mediocre Wehrmacht Stacker #1:  "sry too stacked"

[Mysthalin]

IMO, vet should be changed, and changed significantly.

It should not grant powerfull bonuses, and only be a mere cosmetical stats change to the unit : 0.9 recieved damage, 1.1 dealt damage, +1 use of a grenade - only slight, non-overpowering bonuses. It should be nice, but not fix stupid.

It should also not cost SP to vet up, but rather just have a high bar of vetting up. Only good play should allow for the attaining of veterancy, and vet 2s should not be attainable in one game - more like vet 1 in 2 games if you play well.

It would mean veterans would conquer more a place in the heart of the commander : you FOUGHT with these units for so long, you might even remember their first heavy tank kill if it's an airborne RR, but if it comes to an ultimate sacrifice of a unit for the sake of the war - you can do it, as you will lose nothing much more than memories. Sure, the minor stats buffs will have been nice, but they wouldn't have made your unit a rape machine that can take on 2 companies entirely on it's own.

This would, of course, disallow people who are horrible at using their units from gaining high-vet units, but it would also make sure that it wouldn't be quite as felt that you're at a veterancy disadvantage.

So overall - nice, but doesn't fix stupid.

[EliteGren]

Making vet requirements higher just makes it more frustrating when you lose a high vet unit, for example when your new vet 3 rifles get instantly gibbed by a goliath or your new vet 2 tiger gets instantly immobolized by a mine.

[Smokaz]

Part of the recent balance threads are just symptoms of a reset being long overdue. But the wins and losses affecting your vet gain is something that needs to be patched in sooner or later.

A question interesting enough would be if XP loss should reduce units to a lower veterancy level.. If supposed xp loss would bump a gren below the requirements for vet 3, should it become vet 2? A important design decision regarding xp lost and gained from lost/won games, for sure.

Naturally , really high veterancy requirements would stop bad players from having too much vet .. AND cause tons of babying from most players, make vet hunting more popular..etc.

[Aggamemnon]

I'm more inclined to go with Mysts ideas here.

Slightly increase the requirements, and have the bonuses toned down (especially if we are getting more ranks of veterency).

I'm against the win/loss thing really. Who is to say a unit who fights and loses doesn't learn as much as, or more than the guy who wins.
It does affect peoples attitude to who and when they play as well, which is always bad imo.

It also is an integral [art of the balance I think, if vet takes longer to reach/gain, the SP cost would need to be increased to reflect the gains/expenditure.

[Mysthalin]

Or the SP cost may be removed all together... or it could be made into a way to "skip" the whole "I'm fighting for my vet" up to a certain phase(purchase vet for SPs).

If the vet bonuses wouldn't be too grand, noone would bother hoarding SPs for the sake of having an instant all vet 3 army. It wouldn't be all that gravely more powerful than a standard vet 0 army - and that, IMO, is good gameplay. The good, old players would still have an advantage, but it wouldn't mean you could defeat everyone and their mom by just sneezing at them with your king tiger of megadeath, or airborne blob of doom.

[Jinker]

I find vetting my units up to be half the fun of this mod, which is why losing vet is fine with me. Especially since all allies do lately is vet hunt  I wouldn't mind seeing more levels of vet, as long as each level's bonus' are tuned down, and they are BALANCED between factions (no comeback of the allied sniper who couldn't get hit pls)

[Smokaz]

Eh if you don't implement win/loss xp there's even less incentive to try to win the game, and more incentive to farm until you have collected enough vet 3 pokemon to crush anyone just by the sheer amount of patience and time you have churned out to create the ultimate Goebbels amry.