Jagd: Balance Thread.

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Smokaz]

You got to keep in mind that the game we played we (the 3 allies)
[1] Were defending, had territory advantage -> Pop cap advantage -> own heavy tank
[2] Were very aggressive
[3] Keeps, you and me have higher than average skill levels
[4] Fought the KTs and Jagds in a small, open area where AT could hit them easily

I can guarantee you in a M/E game with more average skill sets super heavy tanks on more open maps where they can direct their fire power it's a lot more painful.

Just attacked against the jagd blobber and myst, same result. Mines, stickies etc. Once there was nothing but heavy tanks left on the field with engine damage we just capped the map and drank coca cola like true american players. IT IS RIDICOLOUSLY HARD TO KILL THOUGH, as when draken sent 1000 shermans to kill a 20% hp immobilized jagd and he just couldnt. I even howitzered it, its a bit too tough when it can survive all that crap trying to kill it. (Not saying it wasnt well supported.) And this was ST winn which generally is a bad map for at guns. (Good map for handheld AT, stickies and mines though)

In a open map it's 9000% perfect easier for me to play with Mgs and at guns. In that game you were in you saw what happens if a good player gets enough mgs and at guns in the open. I controlled over half of the map and the entire combat with those.

As long as you got some flank stoppers and enough mg's, open territory is better cause it means you can control what the mg is firing on + you cant get raped by building garrison-flanks.

[Baine]

You got to keep in mind that the game we played we (the 3 allies)
[1] Were defending, had territory advantage -> Pop cap advantage -> own heavy tank
[2] Were very aggressive
[3] Keeps, you and me have higher than average skill levels
[4] Fought the KTs and Jagds in a small, open area where AT could hit them easily

I can guarantee you in a M/E game with more average skill sets super heavy tanks on more open maps where they can direct their fire power it's a lot more painful.

Just attacked against the jagd blobber and myst, same result. Mines, stickies etc. Once there was nothing but heavy tanks left on the field with engine damage we just capped the map and drank coca cola like true american players. IT IS RIDICOLOUSLY HARD TO KILL THOUGH, as when draken sent 1000 shermans to kill a 20% hp immobilized jagd and he just couldnt. I even howitzered it, its a bit too tough when it can survive all that crap trying to kill it. (Not saying it wasnt well supported.) And this was ST winn which generally is a bad map for at guns. (Good map for handheld AT, stickies and mines though)

In a open map it's 9000% perfect easier for me to play with Mgs and at guns. In that game you were in you saw what happens if a good player gets enough mgs and at guns in the open. I controlled over half of the map and the entire combat with those.

As long as you got some flank stoppers and enough mg's, open territory is better cause it means you can control what the mg is firing on + you cant get raped by building garrison-flanks.

Replay?

[Smokaz]

Ask draken for it or PM me on xfire, I thought it was a sloppy game from all involved so I had no intention of posting it here, in the end we just outcapped them after disabling their heavy armor.

[Mysthalin]

In my oppinion, it's not the jagd, or the T4 that's OP for the jagd.

It's the "what happens when you stack 6 damage bonuses on one unit" factor that's making the jagd seem OP. Change up the vet and doctrinal bonuses not to stack into 300 damage per shot, then it'll be all good ^^.


Smokie, you know as well as we do that draken chose the map because it benefitted your team. St. Winn has never been good for PE, it wasn't good in this case either - just ask buli : he said numerous times urban maps are death for the jagds.

And yeah, it was just a back-cap after a massacre of poor micro.

[Draken]

And yeah, it was just a back-cap after a massacre of poor micro.

I agree if you had no arty you would have killed shit.

[Smokaz3]

I agree myst. Its the accuracy buff from hunter killer that makes it hit inf. Its that one that needs to be changed first. I hear BAINE!!! bragging alot about gearbox jagd being supertough to kill too, but I havent seen those in action yet. My comment to this: HAVE YOU SEEN KILLERS? IT NEEDS A FLAW, IT SHOULD BE SLOW!

And Draken always puts on a gay map where he has the advantage, but you can't really say AT guns are good on ST.WINN with all those stupid corners and streets and god knows what.

As it stands now - ITS LIKE A PANTHER GOING 400 MILES PER HOUR KILLING EVERYTHING!

Try using a tiger.

[Lutefisk44]

just limit the availability of ALLheavy tanks to 1.

everything else which is written in this thread is BS imo

If this case was to happen do you think the firefly should be limited to 1 too?
considering the jagd and the firefly are supposed to be the counters of eachother (they both snipe other tanks).

[Mysthalin]

Firefly and panther are both medium tanks, my dear .

Jagd, Pershing, KT and Tiger are the heavies.

[Baine]

Panther and Firefly should have the same availability.

Like mentioned earlier, restricting players to only 1 heavy tank might solve a lot of problems and even encourage combined arms play more often.

[Ununoctium]

Firefly and panther are both medium tanks, my dear .

Jagd, Pershing, KT and Tiger are the heavies.

1. Firefly doesn't have 9 billion Armour and HP

2. Stacking bonuses.
While we all like them stacking bonuses are exactly the same as non-stacking ones. If you keep all your bonused units on the field then you have max efficiency.
If you bonus all your riflemen then you never have a peak force but your peak force cant be disable since its non-existant.
Thats why I personally prefer small wide buffs because then I win but somehow it looked like you were winning the whole time

Not so say i wouldn't like having one or 2 units (IE pershing/rangers/AB) to help me combat an enemy peak force or wear it down so my minibuffed units can handle it.

[Draken]

In vCoH enviroment panther is heavy tank, in real it was medium. Imo heavy tank is tank with heavy crush.

[Ununoctium]

In vCoH enviroment panther is heavy tank, in real it was medium. Imo heavy tank is tank with heavy crush.

Then nerf the croc dozer too

[Draken]

lmao that's a upgrade same as blitz on p4s that doesn't make them heavy tanks.

[Mysthalin]

Firefly and panther are both medium tanks, my dear .

Jagd, Pershing, KT and Tiger are the heavies.

1. Firefly doesn't have 9 billion Armour and HP

Neither do panthers. Panthers have good armor, but just 742 HP. Shermans got 636, Firefly has 550.

[Ununoctium]

lmao that's a upgrade same as blitz on p4s that doesn't make them heavy tanks.

yeah so while blitz is active your P4s are heavy tanks

so i just tried a jagd and what a dozer.

I have to say its long repair and horrible pathing make it kinda downsided but pricewise its not much more expensive than a regular panther +8pp and you save munitions because 80 mun repair is cheaper than skirts +60.

[CafeMilani]

REDUCE AVAILABILITY OF ALL HEAVY TANKS TO 1.

that solves every problem we have

[Tymathee]

REDUCE AVAILABILITY OF ALL HEAVY TANKS TO 1.

that solves every problem we have

most heavy tanks dont even have an availability. They have none in reserve and have to buy them in supply and pay pp for them so stfu already about that.

[Draken]

Or increase price and pop on super heavies?

[sgMisten]

Or increase price and pop on super heavies?

Just up the Jagd's cost. It's only slightly more expensive in MP and Fuel than a Panther. The KT is already very expensive and has the massive downside of being slow.

[Killer344]

REDUCE AVAILABILITY OF ALL HEAVY TANKS TO 1.

that solves every problem we have

most heavy tanks dont even have an availability. They have none in reserve and have to buy them in supply and pay pp for them so stfu already about that.

Use your head or GTFO.

Back on topic.

Proposed changes:

700MP/600FU/17 POP, remove defensive bonuses from veterancy (at the moment a vet 3 jagdpanther has better armor and almost the same HP than a KT).

Remove PanzerFear (it fixes stupidity basically) and PanzerCommand (stacks like hell with other buffs)
Improved Gearbox should affect light vehicles only.
Keep Tank Hunters as it is.
Allow only 1 KT/1 Jagd per player.

Remove the 50mm LAHT from this doctrine, its low pop cap cost makes it way too effective at supporting a jagd (when you have 40 pop cap the 2x50mm LAHT, 1xJagd, 2xIHTs, 2xmp44 combo is made of win).