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I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
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Topic: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman (Read 21543 times)
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EIRRMod
Administrator / Lead Developer
Posts: 11009
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #40 on:
August 18, 2009, 03:44:34 am »
Quote from: Mysthalin on August 18, 2009, 03:11:43 am
Just remove availability from mainline units like riflemen, volks and grenadiers. I mean, they were never an issue, and limiting them really limits a person's playstyle. I for one would drop out my P4s if only I could get more grenadiers, but no - I am not prepared to pay 2 PP for each of my grenadiers to get more than 8 of them
.
I think a lot of allies would love a 30 rifle company, but the availability says 14, so you stay at 14. Maybe some poor souls give themselves a PP sink by oversuplying 6 of them, but it still kills a lot of the costumizability. Limiting things like greyhounds, pumas, etc. was needed, but mainline infantry - no.
I have heard your prayers.
A solution (of sorts) has been found.
It may show up in this next patch, or the one after - but its a good change!
Logged
Quote from: brn4meplz
Shit I'm pretty sure you could offer the guy a cup of coffee and he'd try to kill you with the mug if you forgot sugar.
Quote from: tank130
That's like offering Beer to fuck the fat chick. It will work for a while, but it's not gonna last. Not only that, but there is zero motivation for the Fat chick to loose weight.
Quote from: tank130
Why don't you collect up your love beads and potpourri and find something constructive to do.
31stPzrGrenadier
EIR Regular
Posts: 38
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #41 on:
August 18, 2009, 05:16:42 am »
Quote from: EIRRMod on August 18, 2009, 03:44:34 am
I have heard your prayers.
A solution (of sorts) has been found.
It may show up in this next patch, or the one after - but its a good change!
I've told you guys this since day one. Hah, you guys finally changed it and I'll tell you if you don't change a few of your other upgrades on those units, you'll have a nightmare on balance issues with them again.
Logged
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #42 on:
August 18, 2009, 05:21:21 am »
Care to elaborate?
«
Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 05:36:32 am by Unkn0wn
»
Logged
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #43 on:
August 18, 2009, 05:36:33 am »
Quote from: Mysthalin on August 18, 2009, 03:11:43 am
Just remove availability from mainline units like riflemen, volks and grenadiers. I mean, they were never an issue, and limiting them really limits a person's playstyle. I for one would drop out my P4s if only I could get more grenadiers, but no - I am not prepared to pay 2 PP for each of my grenadiers to get more than 8 of them
.
I think a lot of allies would love a 30 rifle company, but the availability says 14, so you stay at 14. Maybe some poor souls give themselves a PP sink by oversuplying 6 of them, but it still kills a lot of the costumizability. Limiting things like greyhounds, pumas, etc. was needed, but mainline infantry - no.
I like that idea as well. I was just thinking of that the other way actually. Mainline infantry shouldn't be limited but where would you draw the line? Ami of course rifles, but what about engineers? Do we limit engies? they dont repair anymore so i guess you can just go infinite. Then there's volks and grens, i guess its cool now with the single lmg and schreck to let them go infinite. Then there's brit inf, tommies are fine.
The issue then comes down to PE really and the assault grens, do we consider them elite infantry? Or kinda mid-level, i dunno, personally, they cost so much, and have limited, or nil long range acapability, if you wanan go 20 of them and spend the muni and manpoweron them, i say let them.
Quote from: Akranadas on August 18, 2009, 03:13:52 am
ENGINEER COMPANIES!!!!!!
W00t! Flamers for everyone!!!!
Logged
Quote from: nikomas on October 04, 2012, 09:26:33 pm
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Akranadas
Honoured Member
Posts: 6906
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #44 on:
August 18, 2009, 05:38:55 am »
Quote from: Tymathee on August 18, 2009, 05:36:33 am
W00t! Flamers for everyone!!!!
Fuck flamers. Minesweepers FTW! Bash them Nazis!
Logged
Baine
Steven Spielberg
Posts: 3713
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #45 on:
August 18, 2009, 05:42:12 am »
LOL @ the upcoming 50 engineer companies.
But yes, I'm all for unlimited mainline infantry, volks, rifles, tommies, grens to an extend aswell, but i don't think anyone would spam them after the double uprade change and the schreck cost increase.
Pios/Sappers/Engineers should stay limited though, not as limited as they are now, but somewhat limited (like 10 in reserve?) because they still are special units.
Logged
LuAn
EIR Veteran
Posts: 572
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #46 on:
August 18, 2009, 05:44:28 am »
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=15
Some very interesting stuff, i think we should all cower in fear of massive hordes of riflemen with bars?
Logged
aka
UckY
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #47 on:
August 18, 2009, 05:45:44 am »
Pios yes because they dont suppress l ike engineers, Sappers, I dunno. PIATs cost a lot and you won't see a lot. If you have more than 6 you're seriously limiting your offensive firepower vs infantry. Engineers are crap. Allt hey're good for is building things like the triage and laying mines. I rarely see them used with flamers and then only in a defensive manner, not offensively, they suppress on rifle fire and only have 55 as opposed to 70 for pios.
Logged
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #48 on:
August 18, 2009, 05:47:12 am »
Quote from: LuAn on August 18, 2009, 05:44:28 am
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=15
Some very interesting stuff, i think we should all cower in fear of massive hordes of riflemen with bars?
If someone wants to put the MP and MU into a mega rifle blob bar company let them do it, you'd just know they dont have a lot of support weapons. We need more variety in this mod, atm, everybody is cookie cutter and you know who's going to do what pretty m uch.
Logged
LuAn
EIR Veteran
Posts: 572
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #49 on:
August 18, 2009, 05:53:36 am »
Quote from: Tymathee on August 18, 2009, 05:47:12 am
Quote from: LuAn on August 18, 2009, 05:44:28 am
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=15
Some very interesting stuff, i think we should all cower in fear of massive hordes of riflemen with bars?
If someone wants to put the MP and MU into a mega rifle blob bar company let them do it, you'd just know they dont have a lot of support weapons. We need more variety in this mod, atm, everybody is cookie cutter and you know who's going to do what pretty m uch.
Totally agree, more variety, less usage of popular op stuff etc!
(Though id love to see some handheld suppresion unit for pe then to counter those massive hordes of infantry)
Logged
EliteGren
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6106
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #50 on:
August 18, 2009, 06:09:03 am »
I ran a 22 Grenadier company last war.
That was good fun.
Logged
Quote from: deadbolt on December 30, 2010, 09:14:16 am
i prefer to no u
Quote from: deadbolt on July 30, 2012, 08:08:48 am
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead
sgMisten
Donator
Posts: 778
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #51 on:
August 18, 2009, 07:42:23 am »
This little letter produced quite a response o.O
Quote from: gamesguy2 on August 17, 2009, 07:21:34 pm
But I question misten on the topic of the "good old days". I don't remember anyone using hordes of unupgraded infantry in EIR except infantry company with 130 manpower rifles. Airborne used hordes of airborne, armor used hordes of scouting jeeps/other light vehicles. Defensive was mostly grenadier with shrek/lmg spam with scopes/omniscience. Terror was usually the same with ferocity. Blitz was possibly the only company to use hordes of volks, and that was because of assault.
My point is not about the 'good old days'.
It's about basic infantry being [1] fewer in number and [2] having very few targets that they can shoot at and kill, because there are fewer basic infantry, and more motorised vehicles, many of which are now (almost)immune to basic rifle fire.
[1] seems to be addressed but [2] is still going to be an issue. So we'll get more vanilla infantry running around, which means more vets for vehicles whee.
Logged
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #52 on:
August 18, 2009, 08:36:16 am »
Actually the more likely scenario is that we will be lowering the fuel amounts, which in turn will reduce the overall amount of vehicles and increase the amount of (likely) unupgraded infantry being fielded.
Next balance patch is planned for either this Wednesday or Thursday.
Logged
LuAn
EIR Veteran
Posts: 572
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #53 on:
August 18, 2009, 08:44:04 am »
Quote from: Unkn0wn on August 18, 2009, 08:36:16 am
Actually the more likely scenario is that we will be lowering the fuel amounts, which in turn will reduce the overall amount of vehicles and increase the amount of (likely) unupgraded infantry being fielded.
But: PE Marder and 50mm, both of them cost fuel whereas all the other factions have their anti tank weapons cost munition. And besides that PE relies more on fuel than any other faction with 14 standard Units that require fuel.
Logged
Malevolence
Donator
Posts: 1871
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #54 on:
August 18, 2009, 09:10:13 am »
Quote from: Akranadas on August 18, 2009, 03:13:52 am
ENGINEER COMPANIES!!!!!!
This used to be the case for the Brits, actually, because Tommy availability was like 8 and Sapper availability was also 8 or 10 or something ridiculous like that. Gamesguy's Sapper Backbone Company is something I won't soon forget.
Quote from: Unkn0wn
Actually the more likely scenario is that we will be lowering the fuel amounts, which in turn will reduce the overall amount of vehicles and increase the amount of (likely) unupgraded infantry being fielded.
Next balance patch is planned for either this Wednesday or Thursday.
Personally I would much rather see an increase to manpower than a decrease to fuel/munitions. If you read my two enormous page-long posts you'll note that I think we need more manpower to explore options, and if we just keep nerfing the amount of units we can field of various types (first it was manpack AT, now it will be vehicles and tanks? Next thing you know it'll be that we have too MUCH vanilla infantry and it's a big rifle blob so then we nerf vanilla infantry??) it's not going to be a very enjoyable game at all, because it will be decided on if your single (limited unit here) can beat the other guy's single (limited unit here).
I would very much rather the devs consider increasing manpower for a short time and just letting the availability system work its magic and seeing what happens. Something that could then instead be considered for light vehicle "spam" is to increase the fuel of light vehicles, 50 fuel or so is really a tiny tiny amount compared to a tank, it could use some increasing honestly.
Logged
Akranadas' Greatest Hits, Volume 1:
Quote from: Akranadas
Vet has nothing to do with unit preformance.
Quote from: Akranadas
We are serious about enforcing this, and I am sure you all want to be able to have your balance thought considered by the development team with some biased, sensationalist coming into your thread and ruining it.
sgMisten
Donator
Posts: 778
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #55 on:
August 18, 2009, 09:19:00 am »
I'm liking malevolence's line of thought.
More MP = more MP to use on basic infantry also = more infantry to shoot at with guns
Up fuel for some light vehicles = control of certain units rather than messing up the entire fuel system and rebalancing that again.
Logged
LuAn
EIR Veteran
Posts: 572
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #56 on:
August 18, 2009, 09:30:55 am »
Quote from: sgMisten on August 18, 2009, 09:19:00 am
More MP = more MP to use on basic infantry also = more infantry to shoot at with guns
Up fuel for some light vehicles = control of certain units rather than messing up the entire fuel system and rebalancing that again.
Totally agreed!
Reducing fuel for all is a bad idea, thats like trying to perform a surgery with a huge sawblade, there will be lots of collateral damage.
Instead we should try to do this with as much precision as possible, preferably with a scapel
Logged
CafeMilani
Aloha
Posts: 2994
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #57 on:
August 18, 2009, 09:32:35 am »
u want everyone to max out every unit? goood
Logged
Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #58 on:
August 18, 2009, 09:44:44 am »
The problem with increasing the overall amount of MP is that it will prolong the duration of an average game, this is one of the prime reasons we lowered the amount of MP to begin with. Especially with late war resource bonuses on top of a 9K starting amount you'll be practically up to 10k MP again, right where we started in EIR. Shorter games generally make for more intensive, action-packed games.
That being said, you do have some valid concerns in regards to our current availability. Hence why we will be reworking the availability system, it's already drafted out and just needs to be optimised. I'll see if I can throw out a preview for community input and concerns. For now, I can already assure you that this is going to allow a lot more company variety while still 'preventing' certain powerful units from being fielded en masse.
«
Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 09:48:27 am by Unkn0wn
»
Logged
sgMisten
Donator
Posts: 778
Re: I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman
«
Reply #59 on:
August 18, 2009, 10:08:20 am »
That's cool then unknown. No matter what the negatives of this rapid patching and no holds barred experimentation, I still prefer it to the year long hiatus under old EiR.
Now... any chance of getting the warmap / PP bonus system to give us more map variety instead of gold sector / RTC / abbephail? :p
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