I am abused, I am forgotten, I am worthless; I am the average infantryman

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[EIRRMod]

Just remove availability from mainline units like riflemen, volks and grenadiers. I mean, they were never an issue, and limiting them really limits a person's playstyle. I for one would drop out my P4s if only I could get more grenadiers, but no - I am not prepared to pay 2 PP for each of my grenadiers to get more than 8 of them .

I think a lot of allies would love a 30 rifle company, but the availability says 14, so you stay at 14. Maybe some poor souls give themselves a PP sink by oversuplying 6 of them, but it still kills a lot of the costumizability. Limiting things like greyhounds, pumas, etc. was needed, but mainline infantry - no.

I have heard your prayers.

A solution (of sorts) has been found.

It may show up in this next patch, or the one after - but its a good change!

[31stPzrGrenadier]

I have heard your prayers.

A solution (of sorts) has been found.

It may show up in this next patch, or the one after - but its a good change!

I've told you guys this since day one. Hah, you guys finally changed it and I'll tell you if you don't change a few of your other upgrades on those units, you'll have a nightmare on balance issues with them again.

[Unkn0wn]

Care to elaborate?

[Tymathee]

Just remove availability from mainline units like riflemen, volks and grenadiers. I mean, they were never an issue, and limiting them really limits a person's playstyle. I for one would drop out my P4s if only I could get more grenadiers, but no - I am not prepared to pay 2 PP for each of my grenadiers to get more than 8 of them .

I think a lot of allies would love a 30 rifle company, but the availability says 14, so you stay at 14. Maybe some poor souls give themselves a PP sink by oversuplying 6 of them, but it still kills a lot of the costumizability. Limiting things like greyhounds, pumas, etc. was needed, but mainline infantry - no.

I like that idea as well. I was just thinking of that the other way actually. Mainline infantry shouldn't be limited but where would you draw the line? Ami of course rifles, but what about engineers? Do we limit engies? they dont repair anymore so i guess you can just go infinite. Then there's volks and grens, i guess its cool now with the single lmg and schreck to let them go infinite. Then there's brit inf, tommies are fine.

The issue then comes down to PE really and the assault grens, do we consider them elite infantry? Or kinda mid-level, i dunno, personally, they cost so much, and have limited, or nil long range acapability, if you wanan go 20 of them and   spend the muni and manpoweron them, i say let them.

ENGINEER COMPANIES!!!!!!

W00t! Flamers for everyone!!!!

[Akranadas]

W00t! Flamers for everyone!!!!

Fuck flamers. Minesweepers FTW! Bash them Nazis!

[Baine]

LOL @ the upcoming 50 engineer companies.


But yes, I'm all for unlimited mainline infantry, volks, rifles, tommies, grens to an extend aswell, but i don't think anyone would spam them after the double uprade change and the schreck cost increase.


Pios/Sappers/Engineers should stay limited though, not as limited as they are now, but somewhat limited (like 10 in reserve?) because they still are special units.

[LuAn]

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=15

Some very interesting stuff, i think we should all cower in fear of massive hordes of riflemen with bars?

[Tymathee]

Pios yes because they dont suppress l ike engineers, Sappers, I dunno. PIATs cost a lot and you won't see a lot. If you have more than 6 you're seriously limiting your offensive firepower vs infantry. Engineers are crap. Allt hey're good for is building things like the triage and laying mines. I rarely see them used with flamers and then only in a defensive manner, not offensively, they suppress on rifle fire and only have 55 as opposed to 70 for pios.

[Tymathee]

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=15

Some very interesting stuff, i think we should all cower in fear of massive hordes of riflemen with bars?

If someone wants to put the MP and MU into a mega rifle blob bar company let them do it, you'd just know they dont have a lot of support weapons. We need more variety in this mod, atm, everybody is cookie cutter and you know who's going to do what pretty m uch.

[LuAn]

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5104;sa=showPosts;start=15

Some very interesting stuff, i think we should all cower in fear of massive hordes of riflemen with bars?

If someone wants to put the MP and MU into a mega rifle blob bar company let them do it, you'd just know they dont have a lot of support weapons. We need more variety in this mod, atm, everybody is cookie cutter and you know who's going to do what pretty m uch.

Totally agree, more variety, less usage of popular op stuff etc!
(Though id love to see some handheld suppresion unit for pe then to counter those massive hordes of infantry)

[EliteGren]

I ran a 22 Grenadier company last war.
That was good fun.

[sgMisten]

This little letter produced quite a response o.O

But I question misten on the topic of the "good old days".  I don't remember anyone using hordes of unupgraded infantry in EIR except infantry company with 130 manpower rifles.    Airborne used hordes of airborne, armor used hordes of scouting jeeps/other light vehicles.    Defensive was mostly grenadier with shrek/lmg spam with scopes/omniscience.  Terror was usually the same with ferocity.   Blitz was possibly the only company to use hordes of volks, and that was because of assault.

My point is not about the 'good old days'.

It's about basic infantry being [1] fewer in number and [2] having very few targets that they can shoot at and kill, because there are fewer basic infantry, and more motorised vehicles, many of which are now (almost)immune to basic rifle fire.

[1] seems to be addressed but [2] is still going to be an issue. So we'll get more vanilla infantry running around, which means more vets for vehicles whee.

[Unkn0wn]

Actually the more likely scenario is that we will be lowering the fuel amounts, which in turn will reduce the overall amount of vehicles and increase the amount of (likely) unupgraded infantry being fielded.

Next balance patch is planned for either this Wednesday or Thursday.

[LuAn]

Actually the more likely scenario is that we will be lowering the fuel amounts, which in turn will reduce the overall amount of vehicles and increase the amount of (likely) unupgraded infantry being fielded.

But: PE Marder and 50mm, both of them cost fuel whereas all the other factions have their anti tank weapons cost munition. And besides that PE relies more on fuel than any other faction with 14 standard Units that require fuel.

[Malevolence]

ENGINEER COMPANIES!!!!!!

This used to be the case for the Brits, actually, because Tommy availability was like 8 and Sapper availability was also 8 or 10 or something ridiculous like that. Gamesguy's Sapper Backbone Company is something I won't soon forget.

Actually the more likely scenario is that we will be lowering the fuel amounts, which in turn will reduce the overall amount of vehicles and increase the amount of (likely) unupgraded infantry being fielded.

Next balance patch is planned for either this Wednesday or Thursday.

Personally I would much rather see an increase to manpower than a decrease to fuel/munitions. If you read my two enormous page-long posts you'll note that I think we need more manpower to explore options, and if we just keep nerfing the amount of units we can field of various types (first it was manpack AT, now it will be vehicles and tanks? Next thing you know it'll be that we have too MUCH vanilla infantry and it's a big rifle blob so then we nerf vanilla infantry??) it's not going to be a very enjoyable game at all, because it will be decided on if your single (limited unit here) can beat the other guy's single (limited unit here).

I would very much rather the devs consider increasing manpower for a short time and just letting the availability system work its magic and seeing what happens. Something that could then instead be considered for light vehicle "spam" is to increase the fuel of light vehicles, 50 fuel or so is really a tiny tiny amount compared to a tank, it could use some increasing honestly.

[sgMisten]

I'm liking malevolence's line of thought.

More MP = more MP to use on basic infantry also = more infantry to shoot at with guns
Up fuel for some light vehicles = control of certain units rather than messing up the entire fuel system and rebalancing that again.

[LuAn]

More MP = more MP to use on basic infantry also = more infantry to shoot at with guns
Up fuel for some light vehicles = control of certain units rather than messing up the entire fuel system and rebalancing that again.

Totally agreed!

Reducing fuel for all is a bad idea, thats like trying to perform a surgery with a huge sawblade, there will be lots of collateral damage.
Instead we should try to do this with as much precision as possible, preferably with a scapel   

[CafeMilani]

u want everyone to max out every unit? goood

[Unkn0wn]

The problem with increasing the overall amount of MP is that it will prolong the duration of an average game, this is one of the prime reasons we lowered the amount of MP to begin with. Especially with late war resource bonuses on top of a 9K starting amount you'll be practically up to 10k MP again, right where we started in EIR. Shorter games generally make for more intensive, action-packed games.

That being said, you do have some valid concerns in regards to our current availability. Hence why we will be reworking the availability system, it's already drafted out and just needs to be optimised. I'll see if I can throw out a preview for community input and concerns. For now, I can already assure you that this is going to allow a lot more company variety while still 'preventing' certain powerful units from being fielded en masse.

[sgMisten]

That's cool then unknown. No matter what the negatives of this rapid patching and no holds barred experimentation, I still prefer it to the year long hiatus under old EiR.

Now... any chance of getting the warmap / PP bonus system to give us more map variety instead of gold sector / RTC / abbephail? :p