PaK 40 upgrade

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[Thepassenger]

 Since defencive doc. is looking thin, perhaps a pak 40 upgrade could be placed on it, by time US was in europe PaK 40 was allready the main AT gun.

Should be stronger, less manuverable and no pak ambush?

[Baine]

Yeah, a movable 88 or 17pdr

[Thepassenger]

Why not? theres 3 slots need to be filled.

[Mysthalin]

Because more AT options is not a thing wehrmacht needs right now.

Not as a defensive T2, anyway .

[Draken]

omg seriously...

[Thepassenger]

OMG LIKZ PAK 40s WHERE REALZ AND TANK REAPRZ WERENT!111111!!!!!

even having an entrenched PaK 40 would take slack off the 88 and allow it to actually fire properlly as they should, IE able to shoot arched long range shots.

[Baine]

Because more AT options is not a thing wehrmacht needs right now.

Not as a defensive T2, anyway .

Right, we don't need more AT right now, because the schreck that nobody buys is enough to stop the tank/vehicle spam that everyone does.

And we have 3 slots in the T4 department free.

[Mgallun74]

curious what people stats would be good for the pak40?  pak38 does standard 115..

maybe give pak 40 the 57mm stats? 150 standard damage etc?

[Groundfire]

I like the idea, but wehr just doesnt need the capability of fielding any more AT then it already has.

[LuAn]

I like the idea, but wehr just doesnt need the capability of fielding any more AT then it already has.

Mhm why not? "Defensive" Doctrine?

[Two]

I like the idea, but wehr just doesnt need the capability of fielding any more AT then it already has.

Mhm why not? "Defensive" Doctrine?

Its why they have 88's.

[Thepassenger]

Point being 88s should be long range artillery, which it doesnt feel like in this game tbh in vCOH, and from what ive seen i ngame here,ive yet to lvl up to get it to see my self first hand, but ive played with two people who has used it and i think its the same. Its just a stationary turret and not an artillery peice.



i mean come on the 105 seems to have more range... this way the PaK 40 can take the closer range AT fighting, and the 88s can take the long range AT fighting AS it should be.

[wildsolus]

if the 105 had the range of the flak 88 no one would buy it.

[Thepassenger]

Right , it should have less since the 88 could out range it...

[pernik]

Right , it should have less since the 88 could out range it...

You talkin' about realism here? Uh-oh.

[Mysthalin]

Realism has no place in balance arguments.

The 88 already has immense range at 125 COH metres, and is sometimes considered OP, if the right counters are not fielded by the allies.
The 105 has a range of 350 COH metres, however, it only fires every 3 minutes, and does not target entities, but a portion of ground, making it severely less accurate, though much more devastating against blobs.

[CafeMilani]

i agree. allies get OP shit too.

[mapleleafsnation]

Point being 88s should be long range artillery, which it doesnt feel like in this game tbh

Long range, anti-air artillery. The vanilla 88's were never fitted with equipment to use them as indirect pieces I believe.

There isn't much difference between shooting aircrafts and tanks. Except for the speed at which they move (and the ammunition required I assume). It's basically like a huge rifle.


The 105mm being a dedicated artillery piece probably outperformed the 88 in this role, and it probably had a potential range much higher (not sure about effective range) because dedicated artillery piece often used ammunition that comes in two parts, and so can increase its potential range by using more powerful charges.

Furthermore the 88 is highly overrated as an anti-tank gun. It's definitely true that it was destructive but the vanilla 88mm (not the dedicated anti-tank versions which actually looks like a normal AT gun) had a high profile (which means easy to spot, destroy and/or avoid) and could not be moved easily since it was not wheeled, its ridiculous range was also useless in environments where its field of vision was obstructed (forests, rolling hills, urban).

It's like most heavy tanks, ridiculously powerful once they were engaged, but tremendously hard to maintain and bring to the battle.
ie everywhere except desert and plains.


I wouldn't mind having 88 with indirect fire capabilities in EIRR, but then every other indirect artillery pieces should get direct fire capabilities, along with a 360 degree turret rotation.

[Malevolence]

Long range, anti-air artillery. The vanilla 88's were never fitted with equipment to use them as indirect pieces I believe.

Neither were .50 cals or tank guns, but those were all usable as indirect fire support if the situation called for it. All it takes is some ingenuity :p

There isn't much difference between shooting aircrafts and tanks. Except for the speed at which they move (and the ammunition required I assume). It's basically like a huge rifle.

There is a very significant difference between shooting aircraft and tanks. One is moving at 500 miles per hour with a round travel time of nearly ten seconds, it can displace a thousand feet before your round even reaches its altitude. A tank is not so lucky being stuck at roughly 30 miles an hour with no way to vary its elevation. It can, however, hide.

So on the one hand, you have a target that's almost impossible to hit, and on the other you have a target that's almost impossible to find. Quite different.

[Smokaz]

Moooh. Do I read diss of the howitzer here? As long as the terror/defensive winbuttons against static artillery pieces are not present, the 105mm is golden. It rapes tremendous amount of ass.  It can knock out mortars in one hit, I counterartied a hummel (1 shot 40% hp) today, it can hit nebels managed by lazy players or unlucky ones, its that handy winbutton when a surprisingly positioned mg42 slows down the entire assault. However it demands that you defend it and that you accept that you have a 9 pop arty piece in your team that everyone should look after - its kinda like a sniper - the entire team's responsibility to keep alive.

It's just when rocket arty, firestorm and V1 comes into play that it becomes pointless to field for anything else than 1 volley against good or should I rather say - experienced players. They just rush some kind of unit to give LoS, and its dead. Definitely much much easier to take out out than a stuka, calliope, nebel or hummel. At least a 25 pounder can resist a firestorm or a rocket arty strike because of its armor type. (Not entirely sure about a firestorm - but a rocket arty did not kill one two patches ago. Not saying its a superior arty piece overall either, because of its lolfail range.)