Balance Advisors

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[Jazlizard]

But if they make invisible posts we have to make sure they can only stealth in cover and can't rotate either, oh and they should only get their ambush bonus on the first shot and de-cloak when another posts comes near them.

There should also be a cooldown on re-stealthing invisible posts, as it's totally OP when my flame thrower is chasing a post only for it to go invisible right in front of me! I mean seriously this wouldn't happen in real life...

[Killer344]

LOL.

[bbsmith]

These aren't votes, they are just suggestions.

[lionel23]

And this isn't a 'vote of confidence' by any means, it's asking who in the community, from everyone's experience (and thus suggusted here) can give some good feedback in a well thought out and organized manner.  I'm sure everyone in the community can tell the devs what needs to be done, but of those how many can write it up in a neat little bullet list with suggestion choice A, B, C, etc... that's what this thread is asking.

I take feedback from other members who can't easily put it into words, hammer them 'Well give me stuff to back it up.. okay more than one thing... okay counterpoint that', etc... not everyone can put it all together and organize it, hence the suggestion for some advisers who can clearly and carefully word what needs to be done 

[Unkn0wn]

ps. I think this is a bad idea. Why are you singling out certain people and saying 'your opinion is more valid than that of other community members'?

This new balance platform will not replacing the public balance forum and we will not value the opinion of these individuals higher than that of any other member in this community.

Again, I would like to stress that these individuals will at best supplement the community input, not replace it.

I don't think I could've stressed it more to be honest .

I think Lionel worded it about right

[Killer344]

I'm sure everyone in the community can tell the devs what needs to be done.

That, has hurted us more than anything, there's way too much bias or lack of temper from most people atm, if the Dev team can't find a solution without help, then god help us.

[Sach]

ps. I think this is a bad idea. Why are you singling out certain people and saying 'your opinion is more valid than that of other community members'?

This new balance platform will not replacing the public balance forum and we will not value the opinion of these individuals higher than that of any other member in this community.

Again, I would like to stress that these individuals will at best supplement the community input, not replace it.

I don't think I could've stressed it more to be honest .

I think Lionel worded it about right

so then whats the point?

What have I missed?

[Sach]

And this isn't a 'vote of confidence' by any means, it's asking who in the community, from everyone's experience (and thus suggusted here) can give some good feedback in a well thought out and organized manner.  I'm sure everyone in the community can tell the devs what needs to be done, but of those how many can write it up in a neat little bullet list with suggestion choice A, B, C, etc... that's what this thread is asking.

I take feedback from other members who can't easily put it into words, hammer them 'Well give me stuff to back it up.. okay more than one thing... okay counterpoint that', etc... not everyone can put it all together and organize it, hence the suggestion for some advisers who can clearly and carefully word what needs to be done 

So this is a vote for people who have good grammar and can construct an argument well in english?

[Killer344]

Pretty much, this wouldn't be needed if the Balance Forum is restricted to players known to not make rage threads and keep polite under all circunstances.

[Unkn0wn]

Pretty much, this wouldn't be needed if the Balance Forum is restricted to players known to not make rage threads and keep polite under all circunstances.

We do not feel like we should be excluding a 'large' portion of the community from balance discussions just because English is not their native language or they do not manage to post a proper balance concern.

Truth is, even 'crappy' balance posts can hold some truth in them and point towards a real balance issue.
(Even more so when that vision gets shared by others)

[Baine]

Pretty much, this wouldn't be needed if the Balance Forum is restricted to players known to not make rage threads and keep polite under all circunstances.

We do not feel like we should be excluding a 'large' portion of the community from balance discussions just because English is not their native language or they do not manage to post a proper balance concern.

Truth is, even 'crappy' balance posts can hold some truth in them and point towards a real balance issue.
(Even more so when that vision gets shared by others)

We need raio onboard then!


    ~raio

[Killer344]

We do not feel like we should be excluding a 'large' portion of the community from balance discussions just because English is not their native language or they do not manage to post a proper balance concern.

So.. you are saying that the main problem is the way people write..........lmao, I said polite, not perfect english, everyone knows what words they shouldn't use.

Truth is, even 'crappy' balance posts can hold some truth in them and point towards a real balance issue.
(Even more so when that vision gets shared by others)

With crappy I suppose you mean, biased, full of swearing or just "lol nerf this pl0x" threads, I can't understand why you would need to waste time reading that trying to find some "real balance issue there", disregarding such threads would make look this forum a bit more serious instead of a kindergarden like it has been since the OMG party left, Damn, they used to bash hardcore people raging in the forums.

[Killer344]

I'm only asking to not let people be stupid and get away with it, we should try that, who knows what could happen!

[petewinny23]

spinn72....keeps a level head i think and makes succinct and to the point intelligent responses.

[Illegal_Carrot]

I'd suggest Smokaz, gamesguys, BobSmith, PQ and LuAn.

[lionel23]

I'm sure everyone in the community can tell the devs what needs to be done.

That, has hurted us more than anything, there's way too much bias or lack of temper from most people atm, if the Dev team can't find a solution without help, then god help us.

I'm not saying we have to listen and modify the game to match EVERY need of every community member, that line was taken a bit out of context in that what I was trying to say was 'While every in the US could write their own law, we're more looking for some laws that a single point of contact (a representative) could clearly and concisely address with the lawmakers (ie EIR's Dev team in this instance). Thank you Unknown and Sach for understanding what I'm trying to say here too, because what I'm trying to say is that the EIR Team is looking for clear and constructive feedback, not things like 'OMG HAX! NERF ALLIES/AXIS AND BUFF THIS AND THAT ARr1111!!' and well, you know those kind of posts that are incoherent and unpolished arguments without facts or point/counterpoint suggestions and arguments and well, basically taking all the mitigating issues of balance and skill and conditions into account...

And this isn't a 'vote of confidence' by any means, it's asking who in the community, from everyone's experience (and thus suggusted here) can give some good feedback in a well thought out and organized manner.  I'm sure everyone in the community can tell the devs what needs to be done, but of those how many can write it up in a neat little bullet list with suggestion choice A, B, C, etc... that's what this thread is asking.

I take feedback from other members who can't easily put it into words, hammer them 'Well give me stuff to back it up.. okay more than one thing... okay counterpoint that', etc... not everyone can put it all together and organize it, hence the suggestion for some advisers who can clearly and carefully word what needs to be done 

So this is a vote for people who have good grammar and can construct an argument well in english?

Thank you Sach, this is essentially what I'm trying to get at.  The EiR Dev team is looking for well constructed arguments and logical/cool thinking in regards to gameplay balance and issues, which is exactly what you're saying too Killer, not from people who just lost a game and rage quit and go on anger rants about nerfing everything.  And I do agree with Unknown that there can be issues pointed out by those 'crappy' balance posts, even though said poster could be a 'five year old who might sound immature and can't spell well (Halo anyone?)'.  Just because of his manner doesn't mean he should immediately be dismissed as crazy or a ranter.  Everyone should be heard at least, and hey look at all the talk about the 'light vehicle spam'.  Some people may see it as 'crappy' whining, while others can see it as a legitimate concern to the long term balance and survival of EiR, and the Devs can then guage if they need to act on it or not.

All I'm saying is that this thread seems - to me anyways - as a way to ask for intelligent, experienced players from the playerbase to give some organized and constructive feedback instead of asking and waiting for a vote from every person in the EiR community and sitting through and wading through all of them, point by tiny point before voting on something (and I'm also not saying these advisers will be above the regular community, but more of an immediate go-to person the Devs can reasonably ask 'Have you noticed anything wrong with this from your experience?' type of thing, and they will certainly still read up on what everyone posts and sums up on the public balance forums too!).

[lionel23]

Hmm can't modify.. pardon the typos, was in a hurry and didn't want to lose my train of thought on that one... 

[Killer344]

All I'm saying is that this thread seems - to me anyways - as a way to ask for intelligent, experienced players from the playerbase to give some organized and constructive feedback instead of asking and waiting for a vote from every person in the EiR community and sitting through and wading through all of them, point by tiny point before voting on something (and I'm also not saying these advisers will be above the regular community, but more of an immediate go-to person the Devs can reasonably ask 'Have you noticed anything wrong with this from your experience?' type of thing, and they will certainly still read up on what everyone posts and sums up on the public balance forums too!).

This makes no sense then, The Dev team MUST choose alone who, I haven't ever seen any  company letting people of the same hierarchical position choose who they should "promote", and I guess that is for a good reason hah, and yes, EIRR has grown enough to make such comparison, kudos for the Devs for that.


I still completely disagree with this idea, but the reason for that I have to keep it private with EIRRmod (I'll pm you later) because I don't feel like backstabbing the EIRR team when I could be wrong, or they could just lack time.

[Smokaz]

Your concern is well meaning killer but unknowns original post didnt ask for the community to promote anyone to wise balance man, this was a misunderstanding that was bandwagoned on into the current thread.

They were just making a public statement about the fact that they would bring some members of the community they felt were interested in participating a bit closer to the devs own discussion about the game balance, so noone would entertain the idea that it was some kind of internet shadow operation where members of the EIRR mason order meet in secret and decide the price of the panzershrek while some puppet show of no value still would be continuing in the "normal" balance forum.

In fact, unknown attempted to make the latter crystal clear that these opinions wouldn't neccessarily hold any more weight than the common run of the mill "buff knights cross" thread in the normal balance forum.

[Killer344]

Exactly, the way I see it, it means that some people with good knowledge will get closer to the development like you said (nothing prevents you from doing it atm if you want though) while it will leave the Balance Forum in fire like it has been for months, I'm asking to put order (with real punishments not some 2 days or 1 week bans) to that forum to get REAL constructive feedback about this mod, it's ironic, back in the Pre-OMG days we had an awesome feedback from most members but there wasn't any Dev team nor anyone willing to change anything, now we have a really shitty mess (compared to the old days) in the Balance Forum but the Dev team is more willing to take advise than ever.

so noone would entertain the idea that it was some kind of internet shadow operation where members of the EIRR mason order meet in secret and decide the price of the panzershrek while some puppet show of no value still would be continuing in the "normal" balance forum.

That is also hilarious, there was a "mason order" that used to gather in vent under a channel called RailRoad Tycoon and make OMG xD.