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[Baine]

They bounce off tanks. Even 105 howitzer shells can bounce off tanks.

You sure that is for medium and light tanks aswell? I thought it was special for heavy tanks.

[BigDick]

I know Cromwells aren't tiger tanks, but they definitely are the second heaviest tank for CW (next to Churchills) and the amount of damage they take seems really high with the StuHs range advantage on them, and that thing is designed as an anti-inf specialist tank.

the cromwell is no tankhunter, its like the stuh an infantry killer and can take on light armor or can flank (that is why you can purchase flank speed) and the stuh has like the stug a good frontal armor (against most tankguns) but no turret

if you really want to fight stuhs using your cromwell than at least try to micro your cromwell that makes the stuh worthless on its own

the pro move would be to use flankspeed and "take it fromn the rear" without stuh is able to escape or reversing

And +5 range gives it a total range of what?  StuHs can outrange RRs as it sat back and killed riflemen and airborne with impunity, so if you're saying its less than AT guns, its between RR and AT then.

+5 give 45 range like m10, m18

at guns are 60 range that is way more

and yes all tanks (except PIV stubby are between RR without range buffs and AT guns) 36 is between them too but only a bit more than half of at gun range

[lionel23]

Yeah I'm with Baine on that, I've never seen a howie bounce off a sherman/stug, though seen it happen plenty with King Tigers, Jags and Tiger tanks.

I may have to get into a game with Puddin sometimes and test that on the 'always hitting but not doing damage' thing now with the StuH against say a Crom or sherman and see what happens.  I don't believe it ever hits for nothing but then again I could have just gotten bad 'rolls' during my last few games against his StuH spam.

And hey I find Croms good anti-tank, they can take on P4's reasonably well (of course anything from the front tends to deflect more hits, but I like them a lot more than Shermans for their base cost).  Of course I am NOT saying they are excellent anti tank (thats the firefly's job).

Now are StuH's also 8 pop cap like the Stug?  Because if that is so, you could field at 25 pop 4 StuHs but only 2 (12 each) cromwells, which would make fighting them 'on their own' hard to do, but yes I would consider myself pro in that i use flank speed and flank when it's reasonable to do so.  Obviously if he has AT guns or shreks or a Panzer 4 behind his army of StuHs, its unwise to rush in like that and let Allied AT guns deal with them.

[Ununoctium]

Cromwell is 12!?

sherman is 12, m10 is 10, ostwind is 10, p4 is 12. cromwell is either in the 10-11 pop zone or in the not pop-effective zone.

[lionel23]

Heh yeah it's 12, same pop price as firefly, only the churchill tanks are 10 and I see that because 'they may be strong but are super super slow'.  I wish the croms were 12 

[Unkn0wn]

The cromwell is a medium tank, hence why it is 12 pop.

Now are StuH's also 8 pop cap like the Stug?  Because if that is so, you could field at 25 pop 4 StuHs but only 2 (12 each) cromwells, which would make fighting them 'on their own' hard to do

How is the cromwell going to have a hard time fighting StuHs.. ?

Why would any medium tank have trouble fighting StuHs? It makes no sense.

[bbsmith]

Nope. I used stugs ALOT and I've seen plenty of howitzer shells bounce off my stugs. If you look at the howitzer shell you can see that they have an 8.2 chance of deflecting off a Stug. It penetrates P4s 100 percent of the time though.

[lionel23]

Against mass armor, the cromwell isn't exactly the strongest 'anti-tank' platform, and those rounds (and maybe any doctrine buffs? Not sure) being fired 4 at a time against a cromwell do quite some damage. Not anything like a King Tiger hitting them but it adds up, same with an Ostwind always damage the front of Cromwells and adding its little bit of damage.

And what are Stuh's then too? Are they not considered medium tanks in the sense of the game like a Stug? Or cause they are assault guns that's why they are 8 pop?  Ever play against Puddin's Mass StuH Army? Worked a number on my team's Hellcats/Cromwells and of course you can't touch them with infantry.

Bob - Wow really? Is stug armor better than a P4?  Seems weird it will deflect off the stug and not the heavier P4.

[jackmccrack]

The Stug is an assault gun and its front armor is thicker than the P4s.

[Mysthalin]

Also, it's sloped.

[DasNoob]

I know it's not the balance forum, but here is a high level of these in here now concerning the STuh42:

6. Rage Posting

Users sometimes feel that the whole Dev team changes stats on purpose right before their game starts and then they come here like 10 year old kids who believe they can take on everyone because they just simply are right and nobody can prove them wrong. From now on a rage thread/post will be moderated on sight, do us a favor and take a cold bath before posting after a bad game please, we all have had bad games but that doesn't allow us to rage in the forums.

And

8. "Biased players"

This is close to a myth, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, if X member of the community feels like only trying to point out the weak side of a faction while only the strong points of the opposite, it doesn't make him "biased". As long he doesn't break any of the other rules/guidelines he is free to keep posting as much as he wants, we appreciate well thought feedback.

[bbsmith]

Way off topic guys. I thought the thread was about new units for the allies? And this isn't even the balance forum.

[AmPM]

Wait...let me get this straight. You are trying...and failing...to combat STuH 42s with ARMOR.

Are you sure its the STUH42 that is the issue here? Could it be that either A: you are getting shot by the attendant AT that goes with the STUH42s or are you just sitting still at long range where your gun can't reach and letting them slowly kill you?

STuHs, even with HEAT, have crap penetration vs just about everything, plus with their round firing like mini arty they cannot hit a moving vehicle. Seriously, have you ever thought "Huh, I might be doin it wrong"?

Get a couple tank destroyers, sit at long range, pop STuHs. They only have 400HP.

[lionel23]

Sadly it's the firefly for CW, as it's their only expensive tank destroyer, unlike Americans.  And I know I'm not doing it wrong as I know how to micro tanks, you're just outfielded by sheer numbers of StuHs to Croms, and that's if you're not fielding any infantry either. I'll leave it at that and get off the StuH discussion for now as it's not the focus of this thread, so....

Back to the original topic at hand: I do not think allies need more units except maybe a Sherman Jumbo (high HP tank) and those additional infantry squads introduced prior to the patch.

An Allied 105mm Sherman, MAYBE, but Shermans are decent against axis for anti infantry roles.  The easy eight sherman wouldn't be needed if the upgun Sherman actually did its job of killing axis medium tank, which it - my personal opinion - find that it fails to do so reliably (yes there are times it wins against P4s, but generally it still has crap damage) as the original poster has stated.  So why add a new unit when an existing one that is suppose to do it just needs to be fixed to do so?

I'm not the only person who thinks the upgun upgrade either doesn't do enough to make the Sherman good against tanks OR it's priced way too high for what little it does.  Either give it an M10 gun OR drop that ammo cost, and viola! We have our Easy-Eight Sherman that's suppose to fight armor.

So to summarize, maybe the 105mm Sherman but other Sherman varients aren't needed I think.  And yes to the additions of allied infantry squads like pre-patch.  Not much to say for axis since this thread is about allies, sorry  

[Baine]

Because if that is so, you could field at 25 pop 4 StuHs but only 2 (12 each) cromwells,...

I feel proud to be the first that notices this. 25 / 8 = max of 3 stuhs.

[Demon767]

P4's cost more.

upgunned sherman which is 60Mu Will Destroy a unskirted P4

Upgunned sherman 60Mu May Destroy or put it health down to 15% or lower if the P4 has skirts on it which is 60Mu

So a more expensive Tank Should? lose to a Less exspensive tank?. No

Cost wise the survivability shows by how much it costs.

P4 is a little bit expensive than the sherman so it will survive a little bit longer than a sherman.

and besides thats how the game is anyways. the allies can afford more specilized weapons then the axis it just comes down to who uses them.

No i dont think the easy 8 should be implemented and no i dont think the jumbo should be implemented.

[Sixpack]

P4's cost more.

upgunned sherman which is 60Mu Will Destroy a unskirted P4

Upgunned sherman 60Mu May Destroy or put it health down to 15% or lower if the P4 has skirts on it which is 60Mu

So a more expensive Tank Should? lose to a Less exspensive tank?. No

Cost wise the survivability shows by how much it costs.

P4 is a little bit expensive than the sherman so it will survive a little bit longer than a sherman.

and besides thats how the game is anyways. the allies can afford more specilized weapons then the axis it just comes down to who uses them.

No i dont think the easy 8 should be implemented and no i dont think the jumbo should be implemented.

If they were implemented it would be the death of regular shermans and probably P4s.

[AmPM]

The E8 (easy eight) is really just a 76mm Sherman with a smoother ride...

[Draken]

and besides thats how the game is anyways. the allies can afford more specilized weapons then the axis it just comes down to who uses them.

Hm not really...

[Ununoctium]

and besides thats how the game is anyways. the allies can afford more specilized weapons then the axis it just comes down to who uses them.

Hm not really...

I think he meant allies can customiz their basic platform.

actually axis has the variety and customization. allies can just make them better at what they already do.